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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:08 pm 
val Holryn wrote:
Still that does leave the question of where did the Second Gift come from ... or why the Bloodline powers of he val'Abebi work the way they do. Does Altheres have a secret cell phone with *unbelievable* reception (yes even here I hear you now)?


Quantum Entanglement magic?


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
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the lord willed it be so..

Remember the val'Abebi clam to speak to Altheres.......

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:57 pm 
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
the lord willed it be so..

Remember the val'Abebi clam to speak to Altheres.......


And my old Ardakene PC believed she did Belisarda's will with every breath she took.

Isn't this the setting in which everyone believes their Gods have a special plan for them? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
Posts: 208
ZCaslar wrote:
Isn't this the setting in which everyone believes their Gods have a special plan for them? ;)


Special plans...sure why not. But the Gods have been silent to man since the First Imperium. Heck even Belisarda, Yig and Kassegore have been silent. In fact that is why the Mourners in Silence exist, because no one has spoken to the Gods in so long. High Priests/Priestesses, Hierophants you name it.
In the 3.5 rule set any spell that usually allowed contact with a God went to some lesser being like a valinor. The valinor have been the only link to the Gods since they vanished/died/traveled back in time/what ever you believe. But the Altharians claim that Althares never went silent. They have continued to speak to him even to this day. They can call him, ask advice, get visions, he can even take over the body of someone and speak to others. It's all detailed in the 3.0 Codex pg 75. The Altharians haven't revealed this publically because they fear that instead if it being treated as a blessing "Yea one God is still around" it would be thought of as heretical "You're not special Infernals must be tricking you"

Everyone else can believe what they want for RP purposes, but if you are a val'Abebi divine worshiper of Althares who knows you may get a module where a real voice starts telling you what to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:25 am 
Indeed.
I was poking a little fun at the Altharans and their insistence on having a "most special of snowflakes" status by way of a claim as common as pebbles in Arcanis. "Everyone find inspirations and portents in which leg a dog raises to relieve itself; We Priests of Althares are gifted Powerpoint Presentations from the very mind of His Brilliance!"

That's also not to forget whatsisname the heretic, who claimed that the whole idea was a delusion; that he could command the miracles of Altheres and yet had never once heard his God "speak."
I'd be surprised to hear that he hadn't disappeared, or been very publicly burned, in the mean time.
There's also the accusation that his lack of experienced proved nothing; "so you claim the Lord of Wisdom didn't speak to you. Of course he didn't -you're an ass!" Of course ad hominem is far too weak an approach for any true Altharan (or Scotsman) to be satisfied with. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Work has slowed down a bit recently, and my creative juices have been somewhat stagnant of late, so I thought I’d give some thoughts towards everyone’s favourite medieval-styled nation: Milandir! This nation has been expanded upon by a great number of authors in a great number of adventures and books over the course of the history of Arcanis, possibly ever surpassing the ‘ubiquitous’ Coryani Empire.

As everyone knows (or so the Milandesians will tell us. . . often at great length), all things wicked come from Canceri, while Milandir is the paragon is goodness in a world of evil. Alone among all other nations with the POSSIBLE exception of Altheria (in their mind) Milandir is the home of individual liberty and freedom, where a man (or woman) may choose whatever path they wish to live! Only they are a land of true freedom free of tyranny and open to opportunity

But is it?

First of all, let us briefly take note of the history of Milandir. Milandir is a nation that is (historically) made up of four culturally and linguistically similar regions: Sylvania, Tralia, Naeraanth, and Ulfilia/Moratavia. Following the fall of the First Imperium, this area was particularly hard-hit by the forces of Leonydis val’Virdan due to the opposition of one Prince Volthar val’Holryn of Tralia and his reasonably successful rebellion against the Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame. Over the centuries (approximately 1400 years in total) which followed the fall of the Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame, the devastated and depopulated Milandir began to recover enough to once again become a power in their own right.

It is at this point, approximately 300 years before the Time of Terror, that the recovering Milandir truly started drawing the ire of neighbouring city states, particularly in what is now known as Canceri. Many wars were fought between these city states and independent landholders until the Prince of Naeraanth, on Doflgar val’Ossan united the city-states into what became known as the Milandesian League (of Cities): A mutual defence pact between the desperate regions against threats which threatened them as a whole (such as the Nerothians of Canceri). This changed somewhat following the Time of Terror when Milandir—willingly—was encorporated into the Coryani Empire, but when Milandir seceded from Coryan many of these traditions were brought back with their independence. However, while the first Milandesian League was a confederation of city states, each with a co-equal prince with the ‘rulership’ of the League passing between them, the new Kingdom of Milandir was founded on a far more definite rule of only a single city-state: Naeraanth and the val’Ossan who rule it.

There’s a lot more about Milandir’s history, but this covers the part of it which helps put its culture into perspective. It was during the Shadowed Age, prior to the foundation of the Milandesian League, which served as the nucleus of what is THE essential aspect of Milandesian Culture: The Pact of Oaths. This institution is a somewhat idealized form of what we, today, would call Feudalism. This system consists of one individual swearing their service to a more powerful person in an effort to protect themselves and their families from bandits and barbarians. This extremely complicated network of oaths eventually gave rise to the noble families of Milandir (those who command the most troops, the most lands, etc), with dozens of families swearing fealty to them and giving them some form of tax in exchange for protection. Naturally, the major Val families of the region (val’Ossan, val’Tensen, val’Dellenov, val’Holryn, and possibly the val’Inares as well) became the most powerful of this new ‘noble class’—likely because they had the divine heritage behind them to attract more followers and therefore more lands and more power—and placed themselves in many of the surviving larger communities such as ancient Tralia and the former trading town of Naeraanth as their seats.

In most European-style feudal societies, the noble-class was Land Rich rather than (necessarily) rich from commerce, and from all my reading of Milandir this likely holds true there as it did in places like England and Germany some 700 years ago in our world. These noble families would control large tracts of lands—possibly including entire towns and villages—in their private domains, with the people living there basically being rentors, giving services to their lords such as a percentage of their crops, military service, etc. for the right to live there. This does not mean that everyone who owns land is a noble, as there are many examples of freeheld farms by ‘common folk’ in many Arcanis Mods, though all of them seem to be subordinate to the much larger land-holds of the local nobles, with a similar agreement of protection for some service made. These noble lords then make deals with more powerful Lords, eventually up to the Duchy level, and from there directly to the Crown in Naeraanth.

I should also mention the institution of Knighthoods, and how it (probably) fits into this system. Knights are the lowest form of nobility within the Kingdom of Milandir, and is the primary means of social advancement in what is (no matter what the Milandesians may tell you) a fairly closed system of social advancement. For great services (usually, but not always, in war) a person can be inducted as a Knight by a powerful Lord (typically one of the Ducal families or the King). However, while these individuals are nobles, it does not mean that they are equal to the LANDED nobles of the realm (the ones discussed up to this point). A Knight does not necessarily own ANY lands, and as such their only social coin is the “Sir” or “Dame” before their name. Some noble lords would likely grant lands to their most trusted knights, or give their knights command of a Keep or some other fortification within their area of control to maintain (usually out of the lands associated with that particular location, typically surrounding farmland).

That the above being said, there is still the idea of the “Knight Errant,” a wandering warrior who holds to the ideals of Milandric society but has nothing else going for them. Some of these Knights would be taken on as the elite soldiers of the great Feudal houses (such as the Dolphin Guards or Order of the Pheonix), some would be turned into mercenaries in all but name, and some would join specific warrior brotherhoods (similar in concept to the Knights Templar in the real world, and the Order of the Sword and Feather in my own “Long March, Dark Coda”). Others may also join the Holy Orders of the Church, becoming Templars or Holy Champions. It should additionally be mentioned that there seem to be examples of non-martial Knights floating around in the history of Milandir, with certain people in the arts or politics gaining a knighthood without serving in any martial capacity. This is a somewhat errant view of Knighthoods when looking through the lens of medieval Europe, but fits more with the modern view of Knighthoods as being simply honorifics granted to individuals for great deeds or contributions to their society. Either way, Knighthoods give a certain. . . boost for any commoner (or foreigner) who would wish to push their way into the exalted ranks of the landed nobility in Milandir.

But what does all of the above say for the common folk? It is all well and good, after all, to read about the wonderful tales of noble knights and benevolent lords doing wonderful things, but does this hold true for the common folk? The simple answer is: Not really, but not as ‘not really’ as you’d think. As stated above, it is entirely possible that common folk can raise to even the very heights of the Milandric Nobility (well, not up to King or Duke, but still!) through hard work and more than a little handiness with a weapon. However, like lottery winners, these people make up an insignificant minority of the population while the majority toil beneath their noble lords. This doesn’t (necessarily) mean that their lives are BAD by any stretch of the imagination, though. Everything we’ve seen about the Milandric peasants is that while they may not be well off in our eyes, they are generally good folks without the violence that we see in many histories of the world or other fictional universes with a similar cultural basis, such as Martin’s Westeros from A Song of Ice and Fire. Many of the nobles of Milandir truly do seem to care about the upholding of their oaths of protection of ‘their’ people as part of the Pact of Oaths, and they do seem to uphold the laws and keep the lands mostly clear of bandits.

Additionally, it is entirely possible that the peasants and commoners of Milandir can attain power and influence far beyond their ‘lot in life.’ As stated above, traditionally nobility in Europe and other places in the real world have abhorred commerce, believing it to be a disgraceful waste of their time. This has been true in many other cultures—including Rome, with the Patrician and Equestrian classes—and I have read nothing in Arcanis fiction to make me think that these nobles are any different. This means that commoners can gain much wealth and power by filling this niche, even becoming powerful enough to marry into noble families (probably not in an inheritable position, but most nobles have multiple children to marry off. . . ). It should also be noted that the feudal system really gave rise to the system of guilds—professional associations of specific craftsmen or tradesmen who tend to hold a stranglehold on their given fields. While individually someone like a cooper might not have any power, the Cooper’s Guild may hold great power if they control a sizable portion of the market.

So, what does this say about the liberties and freedom of a Milandesian? Well, for the nobility, they hold about as much freedom as any other noble family within the world: which means quite a lot. There are, of course, social pressures that we would view as restrictive (arranged marriages, the necessity to get pregnant early to produce heirs, etc), but overall they live quite a good life. The commoners also live a life at least as free as you would find in Coryan or possibly even Altheria, though with about as much power as the former (read: effectively no representative political power) and considerably less than the later. Do their laws protect them more than others? This one Milandir definitely appears to be superior to at least Coryan, if for no other reason that we tend to run into bandits more often in adventures set in Coryan than those set in Milandir. Additionally, while there is plenty of corruption in Milandir, it doesn’t appear as rampant as it does in places like Coryan or the Western Lands, so that is a plus on their side. As far as social mobility goes, however, I personally do not see any difference between Coryan and Milandir in any way. In fact, Coryan may have MORE upward mobility due to the apparent love the Patricians have for money and power, and the ability for one to rise to the Equestrian class only through accumulation of wealth; as well as the ‘become Patrician Imperialis just by marrying a Val’ law in Coryan.

So, is Milandir the be-all, end-all of freedom in the world? No, not by a long shot. In many ways they are better than Coryan, and in almost every way conceivable they are a better place to live than Canceri or the chaos that is Almeric presently. You could do a lot worse than being raised in this nation!

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1353
Nierite wrote:
<snip>The commoners also live a life at least as free as you would find in Coryan or possibly even Altheria, though with about as much power as the former (read: effectively no representative political power) and considerably less than the later.<snip>


I don't agree with the assumption that the commoners of Coryan have no representation or political power. The Coryani Empire has the Senate which is a power in its own right. While the wealthier families are disproportionally represented compared to the common man, there should be some reasonable percentage that are senators and therefore hold sway and influence to improve the general lot in life of their fellows.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Unless you are reading something I am not, the Senate in no way represents the common plebians in Coryan. In Rome, the senate was an oligarchal group of Patricians, while the plebians (and the Equestrians) had their own body which had no real power. The Plebs were represented by the Tribunes, who DID have a lot of power, but they were typically Patricians themselves. Even in the Imperial times of Rome, the Plebs never had any real direct political power. Their power came from the mob, and the fact that if you throw enough bodies you can become a threat.

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Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:58 pm 
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A nice summary of Milandir. Very little to quibble with.

I would note that the Cantons of Milandir have been skipped in your summery. I would argue that they have as big a military and cultural impact on Milandir as the Knighthoods...even though they are a lot less sexy from a player perspective.

Milandir has traditionally had unsafe borders its whole existence. It's had trouble at sea (Ymandragore). It's had trouble from the North repeatedly (Canceri). Uh, even more trouble from the North (hinterlanders, infernals). Trouble from the South (Menesis...). In short just about every generation some one takes a poke at the Kingdom ... because its wealthy or because its on Canceri's doorstep.

As a result I would argue that the power elite in Milandir is a lot more worried about loosing power to external (rather than internal) power groups. As a result Milandir arms and trains all its young men to fight. This is the exact opposite of the Coryani Empire. Can you imagine what would happen in the Empire if everyone had a Halberd and a Crossbow and knew how to use it? Legions or no, I am betting most cities would run red with Patrician blood.

THIS is where I think Milandesian justice finds its roots. Because while its hard to mobilize the nation, in normal times its not that hard for three small villages/towns to mobilize a collective 50 Cantons to go *deal* with something. Puts some real limits on what shenanigans the nobles can pull. An truly egregious noble who inspires hatred might find himself quietly pin-cushioned in a "hunting accident."

And you can't disarm the peasants because that means you and family are zombie chow the next time Canceri helps you star in a medieval episode of The Walking Dead.

Maybe Milandir's other motto could be, "When everyone is armed it makes for a polite society." :P

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Very true, Mr. val'Holryn, very true. However, I wanted my focus to be more on social class rather than direct culture, and the Cantons (as with other types of Feudal levies) are but commoners who are granted weapons rather than a direct social class.

I must argue somewhat about the social ramifications of granting 'commoners' weapons as leading to the nobles being killed. Many cultures have used slaves, and even slave armies, and haven't had major rebellions. Similarly, nations such as England during the medieval times also used feudal levies where the peasants who were conscripted were required to provide their own weapons (typically spears and pikes due to cost) or were given similarly 'budget' weapons by their patrons. As such, the local population was armed and could have revolted against there lords, but often did not. Part of this is the general series of Feudal oaths which mean that it is a point of honour for the levies/cantons to NOT revolt against their Lord. However, unlike places like England, there wasn't a massive existential enemy like Canceri with legions of undead and demons which care nothing about your life to put things into perspective.

As far as Coryan goes, unlike the Roman Republic (and more like the Roman Empire and Republic around the time of Julius Caeser) the military is not made up of landholders and nobles, but common freemen. The Empire doesn't presently (to my knowledge) make use of Slave Armies (like the First Imperium did), as Henry(?) has stated that it is illegal for a Slave to carry a weapon in Coryan (again, unlike Rome, which has many examples of Slave bodyguards). I'm sure in times of war people may organize slave auxillia units, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. I have never read that (aside from the practice of slavery) that the Coryani Empire is much worse on its populace than Milandir. Hell, we have many examples of Milandir using slaves-in-all-but-name in the Crusade, where they press-gang prisoners into work camps (example is A1-HP5 "Relevance"), which would be similar to a Coryani being sold into slavery as a punishment for a crime.

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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