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| Dwarven soul source https://paradigmconcepts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2346 |
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| Author: | Southernskies [ Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dwarven soul source |
Human/Val/Gnomes are mixed and recycled in Beltine's Cauldron. Elorii are recycled intact. Ss'ressen is unknown (but based on their mythology are likely mixed and recycled as well, at least when the Varn don't claim them). So where are the new Dwarven souls coming from? The existing ones are trapped in Soul Shard's until the curse is lifted, yet the dwarves do not appear to be diminishing in number. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
With very rare exceptions the rule seems to be that there are fewer dwarves being born each generation. This is explicitly mentioned in the first codex produced for the old campaign. OTOH no limitations seem to exist on gnomes... |
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| Author: | PCIHenry [ Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
That's correct, Eric. |
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| Author: | Taffy [ Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
This suggests that the celestial cauldron (for wont of a better term), which was full before the curse of celestial giant souls is slowly being emptied with nothing new going in. Or is it? We know that there are still Celestial giants out there that were not part of the deal with Illir and thus retain their identity. I believe they are also extremely long lived (can't remember the source). What if the Celestial Giant version of the cauldron is not limited to the Arcanis population and that the souls of the giants on other woulds are also be slowly funnel led into it and then being reborn as Dwarfs. This would be the slow extinction for the entire species everywhere, not just on Arcanis Just thinking aloud. |
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| Author: | Dante [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
Alternatively, what if the powerful magic that the Gods of Man put up to turn Celestial Giants into Dwarves also blocks off their souls? By this theory, Celestial Giants from far distant Realms (where they are still giants) have their souls go where they always went. Former Celestial Giants (now Dwarves) in the Realm of Arcanis (and possibly cosmically-nearby Realms) are blocked off in their souls not being able go to the "Celestial Giant Cauldron". The most obvious result is the need for Soul Shards. The source of new Dwarven souls is unclear. Maybe the Gods even wanted this so that some Human souls get put into Gnome bodies so that when They eventually release the Curse, there will be many magically powerful Half-Celestial Giants who'd otherwise have been not-so-magical Men. This may have some analogies with Eloran Orumar and the way they seem to have souls go to the nearest Orumar (despite the official party line of their being only one universal Orumar). Further speculation: If the Dwarves teamed up with someone who knows how to build an Orumar, could they build a Dwarven Orumar? That could be an interesting story/adventure idea.... |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
Cody Theory: The 'wall' put up by Illiir and Beltine only blocks the souls from RETURNING to wherever the Giant souls go, but does not block new ones from going to Arcanis. As such, the entire Celestial Giant race is probably dying off now, and that is the reason why they sent that representative to Arcanis in Condemnation. Arcanis is becoming a sink on souls for the whole race, which could lead to plot threads in the future about the Gate that has been 'misplaced.' |
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| Author: | Hat [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
Ok, if the assumption is that there's a block of souls for the dwarves, then lets look at how this plays out. 1. A segment of the celestial giants is cursed by Illir. That population (all living at the time) are shrunk to dwarves. Each gains a soul stone. 2. Each dwarf's soul goes into the soul stone when they die. 3. Dwarves continue to be born. Conclusion: There must be a pool of souls beyond those of the original cursed, as all of those should be accounted for. What would be interesting to know is whether there's a correlation between the diminishing dwarven population and the number of gnomes born. With a sweep of his hat, Paul |
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| Author: | toodeep [ Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
Most musings here also seem to treat Celestial Giant souls as unique, whereas we believe that many worshipers of Kassegore all go through the same system, and that human/val/gnome/dark kin all go through the same system and are essentially interchangeable. Why should giants be any different? Could this curse on the Celestial Giants be impacting the other giant races (fire, frost, hill) as well? Some of this comes down to a largely unanswered question of, "who did the Celestial Giants worship before they made the deal with the PoM?" The most reasonable answer based on what we know now is probably no one, but I don't know if that is really accurate. We've seen many cases of the other giant races worshipping the PoM, so it seems like their souls should be recycling through the Cauldron. It would be interesting to be born human with a former giant soul wouldn't it? (possible future foundation talent there) |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
Perhaps a better question to ask is " where do souls originally come from?" Highly doubtful (to me) that Pengik, Undir & other elementalist types come from the Cauldron...particularly if their "ethnic group" was never aligned with the First Imperium. My best guess is that Ourumars, Cauldrons, Kassegore's belly etc are all ways to boost a diety's power. Without knowing more about the "free range" variety of Celestial Giants we don't have a lot of clues to work from on where there souls come from and why the dwarves are dwindling as a people. |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarven soul source |
The alternative is that everyone goes to the same place, and the 'owner' of that place is whichever God is currently in power. This would mean that all the (non-Varn worshipping) ssethrics and any Elorii not tied to a particular Orumar would go to the Cauldron while on Arcanis because Beltine (and Illiir) are the current "big dogs" of the afterlife. Wouldn't that just make all those other races feel so dirty 
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