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Rating Weapon Tricks
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Author:  val Holryn [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Rating Weapon Tricks
I've been talking a little with Harlequin about how weapon tricks stack up against each other. We both agree (along, I think with close to everyone else) but hadn't sat down to talk about our favorites or least favorites.

I created four categories to list them under. Great: You'd use this all the time. Good: Would find this valuable most of the time. Situational: Most of the time these tricks don't do anything for you. And Poor: Flat out we don't like them. Bellow are the ones we agree on? After the fact I added Awesome for Darken the Sky and Steel Rain since I think these two tricks are better than the other Great options. So. What do other people think?

Here's what we agree on:

The AWESOME (even better than great)
Darken the Sky
Steel Rain

The GREAT (would want to use almost always)
Edge of the Shield
Entangle Opponent
Juggernauts's Hammer
Pin Them Down
Ranged Disarm
Stunning Strike
Twin Throw

The GOOD (find utility at least half the time)
Crippling Shot
Long Strike
Slashing Disarm
Twin Arrows

The SITUATIONAL (only rarely useful)
Dismount Opponent
From Earth to Sky
Quick Set
Snatch Object

The POOR (IMO not useful)

Tricks under contention:
Bypass Shield
Crushing Blow
Grasp the Blade
Hamstring
Pinning Shot
Pommel Strike
Rapid Strike
Render Shield Worthless
Shield Defense
Shield Formation
Shield Slam
Shield Throw
Shielding
Stinging Shot
Throw the Blade
Author:  val Holryn [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
This is my personal list:

The AWESOME (even better than great)
Darken the Sky
Steel Rain

The GREAT (would want to use almost always)
Crushing Blow
Edge of the Shield
Entangle Opponent
Juggernaut’s Hammer*
Mighty Swing/Throw
Point Blank Shot
Pin Them Down
Ranged Disarm
Shield Slam
Stinging Shot
Stunning Shot
Twin Throw

The GOOD (want to use half the time)
From Earth to Sky
Grasp the Blade
Hamstring
Long Strike
Pinning Shot
Rapid Strike
Slashing Disarm*
Twin Arrows

The SITUATIONAL (only rarely useful)
Bypass the Shield
Dismount Opponent
Quick Set*
Render Shield Worthless
Snatch Object*
Shield Defense*



The POOR (IMO not useful)
Pommel Strike*
Quick Reload*
Shield Throw
Throw the Blade*

NOTES:
Juggernaut’s Hammer: almost awesome for the ability to dump someone over a cliff. For control aspects, might also be worth a bump to awesome when combined with something that multi-targets like MT: Sweeping Strike.
Pommel Strike: Okay, I admit that if you find yourself fighting skeletons with no other bludgeoning weapon the value of this trick skyrockets.
Quick Reload: Not quick enough. You still won’t willingly reload your crossbow or flintlock while the combat clock is running.
Quick Set: does essentially the same thing as Earth to Sky and Grasp the Blade but is slower and has no added control features.
Slashing Disarm: Almost great, but it is an advanced maneuver. No cool synergies.
Shield Defense: Pretty cool when you need it. As an Advanced Maneuver that makes you give up offense, you won’t ever want to use it.
Snatch Object: I want to rate this higher because the idea is cool. But how often do you expect this to be useful?
Throw the Blade: You had ranks in Melee (Balanced) to gain this trick. Hope you also have a lot of ranks in Ranged (Thrown) to actually use this trick...and have an Air Rune or a back up weapon. You do get +1 to damage…but your buddy got +3 for Shield Throw. My least favorite trick.
Author:  val Holryn [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
Here is John's list:

Here is my initial rating list

The AWESOME (worth spending fate to clear recovery to reuse)
Darken the Sky
Steel Rain
Shield Slam - You get to A) do weapon damage, B) knock prone, and C) push a clock, all without drawing free strikes and for no speed increase. There is no reason someone with a shield shouldn't be using this every attack, especially since it's a Base maneuver and can be combined with even more deadly attacks (Sweeping Strike!)


The GREAT (would want to use almost always)
Edge of the Shield
Entangle Opponent
Juggernaut’s Hammer
Mighty Swing/Throw
Pin Them Down
Point Blank Shot (Goes without saying)
Ranged Disarm - Good use of a 1 shot / fight
Shield Throw - With Air rune this makes for killer Advanced Maneuvers
Stunning Strike - Stunned is a great status effect to give out
Twin Throw


The GOOD (want to use half the time)
Crippling Shot - This is a great 'battle opener' and movement is key in Arcanis.
Crushing Blow - I'd see using this for some good Advanced maneuvers but not all the time.
Long Strike
Slashing Disarm - Good if you are built for disarming
Stinging Shot - See Crushing Blow
Twin Arrows


The SITUATIONAL (only rarely useful or very useful in some situations)
Dismount Opponent - Very uesful when the situation arises
From Earth to Sky - Great trick, but reactive when charged only
Grasp the Blade - Your weapon is tied up during this, so it's situational
Hamstring - It's until YOUR next action, so only marginally useful.
Pinning Shot - Awesome flavor, but it doesn't impose Immobilize and huge recovery for 0 damage
Pommel Strike* - One word: Murders
Quick Reload - For Light XBows this approximates a bow. Others not worth it.
Quick Set
Render Shield Worthless - You lose your weapon with this but it's cool when it works
Shield Formation - Awesome if you plan for it with an ally, but situational
Snatch Object - Love the flavor, can be useful if GM's allow cool things
Throw the Blade - With Air rune, this makes for great advanced maneuvers (Again the shields get the best version)


The POOR (IMO not useful)
Bypass the Shield - The bell curve attack rolls make a +1 not very good for the speed cost.
Rapid Strike - I don't see the point. It's a 1 speed decrease for another maneuver at -3 damage. You can't add this to an advanced maneuver.
Shield Defense - Just go full defense :)
Shielding - Too many restrictions for advanced
Author:  DeadZone [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
So I noticed that with Grasp the Blade and Render Shield Worthless that individually, you both ranked these higher than your final results. I find that odd.

Anyway, I think that Grasp the blade is Good (at least Situational). And that Render Shield Worthless should be Situational. (When fighting legionnaires, taking away their tower shields is very nice.)

Scott
Author:  Harliquinn [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
DeadZone wrote:
So I noticed that with Grasp the Blade and Render Shield Worthless that individually, you both ranked these higher than your final results. I find that odd.

Anyway, I think that Grasp the blade is Good (at least Situational). And that Render Shield Worthless should be Situational. (When fighting legionnaires, taking away their tower shields is very nice.)

Scott


I don't think that bottom 'list' is rated yet and was where we had the most contention between ourselves.

I consider something Situational if one of the following is true:
1) It's VERY useful but in very limited circumstances (When you need it, it's good)
2) It's only so-so to use in everyday situations

I'm rethinking my views on Grasp the Blade and labeling it *GREAT*. You can choose to 'let go' right away and as a Push 3 (0), you can negate an attack. This is particularly great for one of those big attack from an opponent. The thing that just came to mind recently was that you negate the entire attack, not just the attack against you. So if you're the target of a Sweeping Mighty Swing, you can negate the attack for everyone else targeted too. This is much different than if it just said "You cause the attack to miss you." Since it has no Recovery, you can use this almost anytime you aren't under Push already.

I stand by Render Shield Worthless, as it pretty much causes you to lose your weapon. This isn't a problem if you're using a backup you don't need.

John
Author:  Southernskies [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
Render Shield Worthless is normally going to be used with a Pila (thrown) as a first attack and should be common for anyone with the Former Legionnaire background; knocking that 2-3 points off their Avoidance (and stopping Shield Bash etc) makes a very effective opening attack.

Sure, you only use it once per combat but it can be devastating to enemy survival when you do.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
Southernskies wrote:
Render Shield Worthless is normally going to be used with a Pila (thrown) as a first attack and should be common for anyone with the Former Legionnaire background; knocking that 2-3 points off their Avoidance (and stopping Shield Bash etc) makes a very effective opening attack.

Sure, you only use it once per combat but it can be devastating to enemy survival when you do.


Makes sense, still in my rating would be situational.

John
Author:  Nierite [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rating Weapon Tricks
It is very useful if you are confronting a shield wall (which is what the Romans used it for). Since this has only happened once to my knowledge in a Mod, it is indeed situational.
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