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- December 25, 2013 at 8:23 pm #150462AnonymousInactive
Ok, so I’m curious to a certain extent about the differences in belief between the Orthodoxy and the Mother Church as currently promoted by the Matriarch. The A:RPG describes the inclusion of lost scrolls referred to as the Revelations of Illiir. They include the prohibition against alcohol and other “mood-enhancing substances.” It fits very well into an Illiirite view of the world which makes sense given the name and Elandre’s background. Are these changes and the other conservative positions viewed as in keeping with the Pantheonistic worship advocated by the Orthodoxy, or limited to the Illirite vision?
Thanks.
With a sweep of his…
Hat
December 28, 2013 at 9:46 pm #254214AnonymousInactiveOverall, I think the Orthodoxy would be of. . . mixed feelings. On one side, by enforcing Illiirite beliefs on the rest of the Temples, it does bring them all closer to a single belief. However, the Revelations of Illiir really come across as an ILLIIRITE belief, and many would think that this is more one church trying to reach dominance instead of the formation of a unified clergy.
June 5, 2017 at 7:36 am #275508AnonymousInactive((Sorry for the threadomancy, but this has come up locally a few times between myself and the one other Orthodoxy member, so I thought a fresh discussion might be appropriate))
I / my character see it as a mixed bag: on the one hand, the Canticle and the Revelations are largely the word of Illiir, but on the other hand Illiir is the patriarch of the Pantheon, the current Matriarch of the Mother Church was once possessed by the Word of Illiir, and when the wager’s ante is the souls of humanity the safer bet is to follow them if at all possible – just in case. That said, she personally wants more information on the source of the Revelations (the Emerald Society located them – but little else is known of their provenance, including whom recorded them originally), and does not condemn non-Illiirites for refraining from following them – although she does caution them that they are perhaps gambling with their souls on how the Judgement of Nier shall see their actions.
Traditionally (thought this isn’t necessarily true today), the Orthodoxy has been intertwined with the Mother Church – Patriarch Felician val’Mehan having once been if not the leader then at least a high ranking member of the organization. That said, the worship most closely resembling that of the First Imperium is that followed by the Erdukeen followers of Nier – whose interpretations of Nier were adopted as canon by Patriarch-Emperor Calcestus val’Assante during the Coryani Civil War.
The Milandisian Orthodox Church was headed by Sabinus val’Assante, but its split – and possibly later deviation in doctrine – from the Mother Church was largely politically motivated – and something Sabinus hinted at desiring even during the Coryani Civil War. My character, Heidi, was his Seneschal/Emissary on two separate occassions for LARPs back then, and in personal communications he informed her that he did not wish to be known as “the fat Coryani” anymore and that he did not feel it was right for Milandir to be beholden to Grand Coryan. Sabinus was quite aware that she was Blessed of Neroth at the time, and was fine with that so long as she kept it secret through magical disguise while serving his interests. That last bit leads me to believe that even the downplaying of Neroth, Sarish, and Nier in the Milandiric Orthodox Church was politically motivated – though it may now be religiously motivated now that Sabinus himself has passed away.
Right now, it is arguable that the Mother Church is the best vehicle through which to achieve reunification, but it is also arguable that the Mother Church’s Matriarch is manipulating our society to achieve her own desires. My character, at least, knows first hand that the Matriarch’s personality was drastically influenced by the Word of Illiir’s possession, and due to that influence Elandre does not accept any deviation on anyone’s part from a very narrow view of Illiir’s Word – even having expressed outright hatred for Arch-Prelate Leola val’Assante for even being a cleric of Illiir at all. This last part having occurred even before Elandre became Matriarch, and in spite of the valinor the Love of Illiir having come to Leola in the Blessed Lands for aid when she was wounded in battle by the portion of the Angelic Host which followed Manetas, the fallen Pride of Illiir.
So, short answer / TLDR: There is no current church or doctrine which matches our goals, and our leadership is likely divided on what to do about that – that is the problem. Ultimately for our characters – the society’s boots on the ground as it were – it is up to each of us to make that decision.
As far as Orthodoxy Missions to fight heresy goes… that is likely based on whom is giving the orders, and the society’s leadership is not necessarily united on that front. My character’s personal point of view is that so long as a given individual/church worships the Pantheon of Man, does not declare any of the Pantheon’s number to be dead or non-existent, and does not put another deity (such as Belisarda) above or on equal footing with the Pantheon, then they are either acceptable or close enough that they deserve enlightenment rather than violence or admonishment.
Basic guide from an IC point of view:
Etzhara: Heretics – don’t honor the Pantheon
Dacoi: Acceptable – honors the Pantheon albeit in an odd way
Yhing Hir and Khur Gi: Acceptable – honors the Pantheon albeit in an odd way
Khitani: Marginal, but unacceptable / possibly heretics because they don’t accept Anshar
Elementalists: Heretics – don’t honor the Pantheon
Aii Followers: A+ Heretics – claim there is only one god… grade A blasphemy
Milandiric Orthodox Church: Acceptable, acknowledge the whole Pantheon even if they marginalize some gods.
Church of the Dark Triumvirate: Marginal, but unacceptable / probably heretics due to following corrupted teachings of Becherek which completely contradict all known teachings from the First Imperium (Canticle, Librum Sacrum Mortis, etc etc)
Human followers of any non-human deity Ellorii or S’sethric species following their own gods are fine – the Pantheon of Man is for humanity, not Ellorii/snakes… but when a human converts to that worship, that is grade-A heresy that must not be allowed to spread.The above is I think the most tolerant way to view it – but every Orthodoxy member / leader has to come up with their own interpretation. Part of the Orthodoxy’s mandate include’s fighting heresy, but I think that was probably originally intended to be heresy of the Aii/Elementalists/Humans-Worshipping-Belisarda variety rather than simple doctrinal differences. My evidence supporting this is Felician val’Mehan’s membership and his (as well as Arch-Prelate Shaitan val’Mordane’s, coincidentally) attempt to reintegrate the Dark Triumvirate into the Mother Church combined with the willingness he/they showed to allow otherwise ‘heretical’ (in the eyes of the Mother Church) practices to continue in sanctioned fashion as a compromise in favor of unification. While these attempts failed due to outside influences (Calcestus, in the case of Felician, and the Blight Bearers / Palic val’Mehan / Hegrish val’Mordane, in the case of Shaitan), they still serve as a good example of doctrinal flexibility. Please note that while Felician is a confirmed part of the Orthodoxy, Shaitan is NOT – he may very well have merely been working towards the same goal for different reasons and not a member or aware of the Orthodoxy.
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