How to get Weapon Tricks for shields

I have to admit I have come to Despise the way shields are treated in this game. Were it within my power (rest assured it isn’t) I’d scrap the entirety of their mechanics and start over. Sometimes they count as weapons, sometimes they count as armor and sometimes they are their own thing. And my personal take is that its largely arbitrary when they count which way making them confusing in addition to needlessly complex.

I agree in part and disagree in part with Josh’s opinions.

If you have armor proficiency with shields (usually, but not always, because you have the Martial Archetype) then I believe you can take tricks for them as a weapon as if you had Weapon Training Shield. Its like a virtual talent for that purpose. But, if you then wanted to take Weapon Mastery with Shields you would then have to go back and burn a talent on Weapon Prof Shield first.

If you have a background that let’s you pick a weapon proficiency I believe you can use that to take WP: Shield even if you don’t have armor training with shields. Obviously this gives you access to tricks. Technically this does not give you the ability to use a shield for defense as well…so in practice I think you need to also go back and buy Armor Training Shields or eat the non proficient penalties which suck (see page 187).

Yes if you spend a talent on Armor Training/Shields, you gain that training in all shields.

I didn’t think about Weapon Mastery.

But still with the way that Armor Proficiency, Shield is written

snip…You may also start to acquire shield Weapon Tricks as if you acquired Weapon Training with all shields.

Why not say that for the purpose of Weapon Mastery Shield, Armor Proficiency, Shield counts as Weapon Training Shield. I mean the Talent it self already says that.

About this bit

•Backgrounds like “Awakened Scion” that grant choice of a Weapon Talent, will also allow you to take Weapon Training Shield

and this

If you have a background that let’s you pick a weapon proficiency I believe you can use that to take WP: Shield even if you don’t have armor training with shields. Obviously this gives you access to tricks. Technically this does not give you the ability to use a shield for defense as well…so in practice I think you need to also go back and buy Armor Training Shields or eat the non proficient penalties which suck (see page 187).

A shield always provide some kind of defense bonus. On pg 187 it states that without Armor Proficiency, Shield, shields provide 1 AR that stacks with armor, but you take double the shield’s SB to all attack rolls and all Physical action skill rolls. I would assume that would include attacks with the shield itself.

If you’re building a character that wishes to use a shield as a weapon and you’re not taking the Martial Archetype, and your Background doesn’t provide Armor Proficiency, Shield. Your only option is to take Armor Proficiency, Shield at Step 9 (Talent selection) of Character Creation. That step grants you 2 (or 3 with Flaw) new Talents. You may select any Talent for which you meet the prerequisites. (pg95)

The prerequisite for Armor Proficiency, Shield is Armor Proficiency, any (ta) and all 4 Archetypes give some kind of Armor Proficiency. So it’s very easy to get Armor Proficiency, Shield in every build if it’s important you.

damn why hasn’t Pedro gotten the “like” button to work yet? Thanks Eric.

Vault, you have some really good points, and they are good reasons for that edge (weapon prof shield without armor prof shield) case to remain an edge case.

I would LOVE for Armor prof shield to count for Weapon mastery, but unless official wording is put out on that, its still required, and anyone that wants weapon mastery shield (or to put weapon runes on their shield) needs it.

(or to put weapon runes on their shield) needs it.
Why do I need training to use a shield weapon rune?

In my opinion there is no change needed for the talents of shield.