Homebrew: Tal Kanath as a Fighting Style

:ugeek:
Go on…

So I had an idea.
Here’s my entry, Val’Holryn.

The Dance of Beroe (Alternately “Grace, Glory, Geyser!“)

“Water surges, smashes, rushes, shoves, sweeps and even at rest is less then a thought away from becoming a raging torrent. Be like water, child of Belisarda.” -Armsmistress Shavaizess.

Once per scene when you strike a target with your broadsword you may elect to also attack the target’s Fortitude defense (if this attack would normally target Fortitude then this effect is unchanged). If you also match or exceed their Fortitude you may elect to slide them a number of squares equal to your passive Prowess value after any other effects are resolved. At the end of this movement they fall prone.
If this movement would cause them immediate injury (hazardous terrain, ongoing spell effects, etc) their target defense increases by four against this technique. Vertical movement triggers this increase, but only once and only for the original target.
This movement can provoke Free Strikes. Free strikes do not trigger the defense increasing effect.
If this movement would force them into an occupied square compare the being in the occupied square’s Fortitude to the attack roll -4. If the attack would still succeed that secondary target is subject to the same effect minus one square of movement. The original target then stops it’s forced movement, and is knocked prone/falls.

In addition the hero may also follow the target’s movements, as well as that of any secondary target’s movement, at the cost of 1 Recovery for the first square and 1 additional Recovery for each square thereafter. This movement must begin at the first square the target vacates, and must result in an unbroken chain of squares. The hero cannot move illegally in any way as part of this effect with one exception: they may move through occupied enemy squares. None of the hero’s movements trigger Free Strikes.
Targets affected can be launched off the ground, but the hero cannot follow unless they’re subject to an active Flight effect. Targets so launched fall the appropriate distance once their movement is completed, do or do not suffer damage as they would normally, and end up prone if they can.

Repeat until this effect is resisted or until no more legal movement options exist, with any successive target moving cumulatively one less square. Targets successfully affected also are moved one less square for every site category above Medium they are. If this would reduce the forced movement to zero they do not move, but they are still knocked prone.

This ability is normally without additional cost to the triggering attack, but can be added to an advanced maneuver at the cost in increasing it’s recovery by one, and with any secondary movement from this ability adding it’s Recovery cost as specified above. Regardless of the maneuver it is added to it is still restricted to one use per scene and it only targets a single enemy regardless of how many others are affected by the original advanced maneuver.

Sengoku Musou!

Some comments (Comparing it to other Fighting Styles)

Requirements:
– I would add the Quick (ta) as a requirement to really push home the need to be light on one’s feet for mobility. Most of the Fighting Styles have 3-4 Talent Requirement.
– I would add Weapon Training (Broadsword) as well just incase someone has somehow skipped it to get Mastery in some way
– I would increase to 6 Ranks in Melee (Balanced ) – This brings it line with many of the other fighting styles using a single or select group of weapons
– I would reduce to 3 Ranks in Perform (Dance) as until now it’s not likely an advancement option for a character

Tier I
Most Fighting Styles (if not all) offer the user of a Martial Technique or Talent while in the stance. Here’s some suggestions
– Remove the “Use Perform to attack with thrown” from Tier I. Changing up a combat skill like that is problematic with things that increase the ‘replacement skill’. SOmeone using this Path or Style *should* invest in Thrown. There are other fighting styles and such that use “Thrown” and if the character doesn’t invest in it, it’s not useful. That’s part of the system and the choices have consequences.
– Keep the “Perform (Dance) is added to your advancement
– I would remove the Thrown Quality part (As the Broadsword already has the Throw the Blade trick. I would add “While in this stance you gain the “Mighty Throw” technique with your broadsword” to be consistent with other fighting styles.

Tier II
Okay so I’m trying to think of this user being a lightly armed, dangerous fighter moving through the crowd of people and slicing them down like a fire, which moves quickly with fuel.
My recommendation would be to change the Tactical Edge to the following:
Blade Upon the Wind, Hamstring, Passing Strike (or Flowing Sand) – main reason is the broadsword can’t do Slicing Disarm without a lot of other help. If you keep the Bound Weapon, should be 3 techniques here, otherwise 4
– Add You gain the Bound Weapon talent with your broadsword – This seems flavorful and very useful

Tier III
This is universally another Martial Technique for Fighting Styles. The “dance of the earth” is cool but there aren’t many things forcing movement and the check is likely to automatically bypass it.
– I’d recommend a defensive either Riposte or Deflect Attack with the broadsword

Tier IV
This is your ‘capstone’ ability and should reflect the pinnacle of the style. I’d recommend one of the following or something similar
– I would Bring the Tier III to here and just make it “Once per scene as a Push 3 action you can negate any forced movement”
– When taking movement that normally provokes free strikes, the first 5′ of your movement no longer provokes free strikes while in this stance.

Any thoughts?

Tier 3 ability – You may just want to replace the mechanics with gaining the Relentless Talent. I believe it does pretty much what you’re looking for, though I don’t have my book in front of me.

That was exactly what I was going to suggest. Make the T3 ability grant Relentless (ta), but using your passive Quickness instead of Might.

John,

I can appreciate wanting to be careful where game balance is involved. I think that’s a solid approach given the law of unintended consequences.

In terms of dance replacing thrown this really only impacts Divine and Arcane archetypes. To take advantage of it they need to utilize a 4th skill option per Tier for that extra +1 as it’s assigned with the Lore or Social Skills. That’s not a no-brainer and certainly comes with an opportunity cost. Martial can already take Thrown as part of selecting Physical / Combat skills so in their case it’s a wash. The Path itself only provides 1 rank in Dance, which for a 2 Tier Path is consistent with a primary combat skill.

The replacement is for a single weapon. Building that skill up in its place does not allow them to throw any other weapon with ease. That’s less attractive than building up Ranged (Thrown). A weapon with a 10′ range isn’t a great plan for ranged attacks in general given maximum ranges and -2 to hit per range increment.

If there’s something I’m missing let me know. I’m also fine if I’m in the minority about it not being much of a game balance issue. That’s the advantage of a dialogue.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Ok,

In terms of ZCaslar’s ability, it’s too complicated for me. I’ve read it at least twice and I’m still not sure I fully get how it’s supposed to operate. Further I think you can get a similar effect combining Flowing Sand and another technique.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Understood. In the light of day I realize I tried to code a D&D 4th Edition-ish trick. The language would be a lot simpler if there was more constant forced movement rules as it’s basically hit the target, slide it around, ricochet other enemies, and follow if you want. It’s a 1/scene mass control trick.
The egregious rules-mongery is for covering all the possible bases like advanced techniques, vertical movement, free strikes, size differences, etc etc.
Really the basic description’s not that complex; the problem with a simple description is how the rules are open to interpretation and I know I hate that because individual judges who don’t think Nierite Smite machines dealing ~30+20 every 9 ticks is fine while paying three talents to take half falling damage is a “whoa, take a step back” moment based on the random alchemy of mood and perception.

(no, that is not aimed at anyone is particular.)

Re: Eric’s posting.

Tier I: I think using Perform (Dance) as a throwing skill is a perfectly valid option as you are basically making THAT your Ranged (Thrown) skill. Even with making it one of your archetype skills doesn’t bother me that much as Blade Upon the Wind (ta) is a 1/scene power, which means it is of somewhat limited usefulness, or at least limited chances to be overpowered as some seem to think.

Tier II: Maybe also include Whirlwind Attack and/or Flowing Sand as it seems in fluff.

Tier III: I don’t know, this doesn’t seem very ‘earthy’ to me. Have it that as a Push 3 they can make a Perform Dance vs. one of the defences of whatever (or whoever) it is trying to push them back? Seems more appropriate to me (they are stuck to the ground).

Tier IV: I don’t know about this one. Not sold on its overall utility with getting just a Tier II (Katar) weapon trick as a Tier IV power. The movement one is MORE powerful, but it is basically Quick (ta) (though you can reduce a Dash to 2 ticks). I’d almost simply say that it is Quick, or an improvement on Quick (“You can reduce any movement by 2 to a minimum of 1”).

We have Bloodline talents which substitute non-Arcanum Skills for Arcanum Skills, so I see no issue substituting a non-Combat Skill for a Combat Skill. It all requires context, and must be limited which the Tier I ability is (only for Blade on the Wind).