What role does everyone see Experts filling?

Experts are problems because they make casters that are equivalent to casters that are built on the arcane and divine archtypes, and because they build fighters that are the equivalent to martial characters…. and yes its because everyone is playing experts

What defines a “Caster” or “Fighter” then? Is it the options you have at the start?
– Arcane/Divine: Start with Prestidigitation, All Universal Spells, “Casting Talent Tier I”, Casting without meeting Attributes, Starts with needed Skills at Rank 1
– Expert: Start with Prestidigitation, Some Universal Spells, Must take Divine Casting as Talent, 1 Type may start with Arcane Casting (Shaman), Must take Talent to start with needed Skills at 1

– Martial: Start with ALL National Weapon Training, Start with ALL National Armor Training, Start with Advanced Armor Training, Starts with needed Skills at Rank 1
– Expert: Starts with 3 Weapon Training (2 National/1 Not), Start with Light National Armor, Must take Talent to start with needed Skills at Rank 1
– Arcane/Divine: Starts with 1-2 Weapon Training, Start with some Armor Training (National or Deity)

How is the Expert “the equivalent” in either of those cases? The Expert is always a ‘little behind’ or must take Talents to be ‘close’ (In the case of Martial they get 2 Combat Skills instead of 3)

Or is it your Flexibility in your chosen ‘role’ as the game progress?
– Arcane: Gain a free “Arcanum Talent” each advancement to be used for added adaptations or talents that build on casting
– Expert: Must use “Any Two Talents” or “Any 1 Talent” option for the same, so their selection of options are much less

– Martial: Learn 2 Maneuvers or 2 Combat Talents each advancement to be used for a variety of techniques that combine into advanced maneuvers for true power
– Expert: Must use “Any Two Talents” or “Any 1 Talent” option for the same, resulting in much fewer options

I content that the difference between Expert and Caster/Martial is the amount of options the other 2 Archetypes have within their chosen concentration. An expert can (and should) be as good as the Martial in 1 weapon or 1 type of style, and an Expert can (and should) be as good as a Caster using the spells listed. However, the Expert will never have the options afforded the Martial character when it comes to combat variety or the Arcane/Divine character when it comes to customization of their spellcasting. That is the balance in the system.

John

An expert can (and should) be as good as the Martial in 1 weapon or 1 type of style, and an Expert can (and should) be as good as a Caster using the spells listed.

I think this is where we disagree

Then until PCI states their view, we will continue to disagree.

Being as good as someone in 1 thing as they are in 6 things is still ‘not as good as they are’. If you expect Experts to be ‘worse’ in all cases than the other Archetypes, that’s unrealistic given a skill based/class-less system.

If you expect Experts to be no better at Arcane/Divine casting than a Martial Character taking Arcane/Divine casting, there’s a problem. The Martial is already ‘the best at his field’ and he’s dipping into another field. There’s no ‘defined field’ for Experts. Many of the ‘skills’ traditionally thought of as Expert skills (Knowledges, Social, Larceny, Stealth) are covered by other Archetypes just as well. Divine Characters can keep up all their Social Skills. Arcane Characters keep up all their Lore Skills. We’ve already seen in 3 years how little Larceny matters, and there’s an entire thread about why no one wants Stealth to become too ‘good’. What does that leave Experts?

John