• This topic has 19 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by Anonymous.
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  • #151146
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    His stats list as
    Avoidance 25
    Fortitude 34
    Discipline 34

    Are those 34s valid? I think I dropped him to 28s when I ran before, but wanted to see if might have missed an errata. The 25 Avoidance I get, especially with Overpower and Reckless Swing evening out the odds a bit by dropping it.

    #261539
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    If you look at his statblock, he’s a Tier V character. If you look at the bestiary statblocks on how to build an Adversary, their base defences are 2 Moderate (15-16) and 1 Difficult (17-18), and they get an additional +3 at Tier I, II, and III, and +4 at Tier IV and V. This means that his BASE defences before taking size, talents, etc into account should be between 32 and 35.

    #261540
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I get that, but how’d he get a 25 Avoidance? I assumed maybe he was weakened by his fight with Xabal.

    #261543
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Before Huge would be taken into account, he’d have A-27, F-32, D-34. His Avoidance is low and either 1) Reflects his weakened state, or 2) was artificially lowered to making him a BIT easier to fight at these tiers. Having a 30/34/34, especially with the tail and mace involved probably would have been too much at Tier I.

    #261545
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    As I recall, those stats are the (severely) weakened stats. This is after he’s gone toe to toe with a Valinor who fully healed himself multiple times (committing a near genocide in the process), and while he’s being engaged by an entire army *by himself*.

    I’d say to all GMs running this (and any other module): If the fight is intended to be lethal, and its 4/5/6 vs. a single opponent like this case (even accounting for the multiple attacks, he’s still just one target), I would adapt the numbers on the fly based on how well the Heroes have been hitting throughout the rest of the event. If they’re consistently rolling 25+, I’d up the Avoidance to 27/28. I’d want them to hit it 25-40% of the time. Because if every player hits every time, with the stats as presented, he will drop within 24 ticks. If you want the players to enjoy beating on him, you can raise the Stamina instead, but that just turns into a grind instead of a matter of tactical positioning and assisting each other to get the hits.

    #261546
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I would adapt the numbers on the fly based on how well the Heroes have been hitting throughout the rest of the event. If they’re consistently rolling 25+, I’d up the Avoidance to 27/28. I’d want them to hit it 25-40% of the time.

    that’s actually exactly how I’ve run him. This is my third time at this (2 tables and a pbp this time) and I’ve both upped and dropped his stats accordingly about at the rate you suggested. I have also not allowed tac edge unless they have a talent because of the tail and mace. To counter, I do use Reckless and Overpower pretty frequently. the PCs have hated it…but, they start hitting.

    Besides, he only has 2 Fate. . .

    #261792
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Him sitting on his own on a big open map makes it easier for the players as well to move to where they want to get the best bonuses for hitting and to maximise their own talents.

    #261797
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    His AV includes the reductions from his Talents. I would have to look at the homeplay version, but I know the one at Origins made that clear.

    #261811
    frootsnax
    Participant

    If his avoidance is 34 then he can’t really be beat by Tier 1 or tier 1.5 heroes. From a plot perspective its just that simple. It has to be lower or the plot has to assume the players “loose.” Personally I would have been fine with him escaping to fight another day but I know there are also people who really wanted to face him as the “boss fight” of the Crusade Arc.

    I’ve played that BI and run it twice now. How tough I made the Uhxbrachtit fight varried with party composition. The first time everyone through down I had six combat effective players and I pulled out all the stops to scare them. The second time I had four players (one an archer who hid in the back) and I had to be creative to not nerf the encounter … but not TPK them either.

    #261813
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    If his avoidance is 34 then he can’t really be beat by Tier 1 or tier 1.5 heroes

    Ran this last weekend, dropped 4 of the 5 characters with wounds, due to massive damage rules.

    They ranged from 1.5 to 1.9

    partially this happened because of a really high discipline score (one of the martial character depends on being able to hit discipline score, I nerfed the fight by dropping 15 hps from the bad guy (I justified this because of one less player than the fight was designed for)

    #261814
    frootsnax
    Participant

    *nods head* Sounds like a good call to me. When 5 out of 6 players are down then its safe to say the party has been scared.

    #261816
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I actually tried to kill some players but failed. I had six players, 4 close combat, 1 pure mage and 1 sarishan priest. Given the starting positions the fighters moved up close and the mages engaged at range. They raced through his HP with frequent massive exploding damages. I gave him 100 HP extra and he was still down within 16 ticks with only one character dropped. Some times it’s the luck of the dice on the day as to how hard an encounter actually is. His AC…I mean avoidance… seemed fine, they didn’t hit too often (all were tier 1.5) just that when they did things rolled high for them.

    #261817
    frootsnax
    Participant

    I actually tried to kill some players but failed. I had six players, 4 close combat, 1 pure mage and 1 sarishan priest. Given the starting positions the fighters moved up close and the mages engaged at range. They raced through his HP with frequent massive exploding damages. I gave him 100 HP extra and he was still down within 16 ticks with only one character dropped. Some times it’s the luck of the dice on the day as to how hard an encounter actually is. His AC…I mean avoidance… seemed fine, they didn’t hit too often (all were tier 1.5) just that when they did things rolled high for them.

    *Nods head* That’s sometimes the way the game works out too. There is a gulf in combat ability between characters that are hardened for combat and characters who are not. And the exploding dice mechanism means sometimes you get really big hits … even from daggers. There is nothing inherently wrong with adding stamina to a “boss fight” as long as its to make it a memorable challenge and neither an exercise of Judges’s ego nor an attempt to put more bodies on the ground.

    As an aside there is nothing wrong (IMO) if a PC dies in an epic fight with the likes of Uhxbractit. However in other circumstances I’m uncomfortable with it in this game system. Given that there is no way back from the grave I think its important to avoid PCs deaths where possible or reasonable.

    #261821
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    As an aside there is nothing wrong (IMO) if a PC dies in an epic fight with the likes of Uhxbractit. However in other circumstances I’m uncomfortable with it in this game system. Given that there is no way back from the grave I think its important to avoid PCs deaths where possible or reasonable.

    That being said, this is at odds with the average player’s desire to engage in combat at almost every possible opportunity. How many times do people just take combat for granted and wade in? Further, I would argue that at least historically, people were more likely to get killed in small skirmishes and street fights than they were in big grand battles. First, because in a big battle, your enemy doesn’t have time to make sure you’re dead before they have to defend themselves, and second, when the stakes are higher, people will be more keyed up, aware, and engaged.

    Someone mentioned once that it was absurd to be able to go toe-to-toe with Uhxbractit, and then get mauled by a shadow lion into unconsciousness in a later module. Taken at face value, that might be true, but it discounts the fact that every fight you get into could be potentially deadly (after all, it almost inevitably is for the enemies the players are fighting). A single small dog minion who gets a single critical hit, and explodes damage like nobody’s business could still drop a player, given how the system works.

    To your point Eric, I would agree that it is important to avoid PC deaths where possible and reasonable (i.e. it shouldn’t happen just because the GM wants to kill someone). I would just argue that some of the onus for doing so belongs to the players and their decisions, not simply on the GM.

    #261822
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Tangential question. Sorry if this is answered somewhere (I don’t remember seeing it).

    If a PC is killed, what is the official line on new PCs? Do they start over at 1.1 (or 1.5 given the leveling cert) or something else? If it’s not “something else”, that’s far harsher than any other league I’ve heard of (in both LFR and PFS, it’s basically impossible to permanently die). It would suck to be forced to either replay all the mods (and only get replay certs) or essentially stop playing with friends (since 1.1 is not really useful later in the arc and 1.5 prohibits most crusade mods).

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