Origins BI Cert and campaign direction

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  • July 6, 2014 at 9:55 am #151383
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I didn’t want to post on the public boards yet as I want to present a united face as a harvester. I did want to pose the question here, however, because to be honest I was very disappointed in the Origins BI rewards. While I understand that the game isn’t about the XP or gold, there are real life considerations that I feel need to be taken into account and PCI needs to make a decision and public statement up front for everyone.

    I’m going to be candid about these things and it doesn’t change the fact that I’m still very much a huge fan of Arcanis and do everything I can to help out.

    I understand PCI doesn’t want to create a huge rift between people who can make cons and those who can’t (for whatever reasons). However, I submit that going to 1 con a year isn’t not that hard to do. I’m sorry but Origins (where the biggest congregation of Arcanis happens) happens every year, at the same time, and is not prohibitively expensive for North Americans. While there may be last minute things that occur to keep people from attending, the majority of people can save up over the year to afford to go. There are enough opportunities to share rooms, take cheap transportation and eat sensibly that cost is not really an issue.

    At the convention, Arcanis players are advertising the game via conversations with other gamers, hanging out at HQ (visible to most people in a prominent location) and sometimes even bringing in new members. While the con costs are not prohibitive, attending does take planning and a little sacrifice. Playing and/or running the games takes time and energy. BIs in particular require a huge investment from GMs, players and campaign staff. They generally run 12 hours, involve difficult, sometimes frustrating and deadly fights, and my understanding are supposed to be high risk (not hard to lose at a table) and nice rewards for all the effort.

    I am going to be frank: this year’s rewards were disappointing.

    I get that XP needs to be curved, but 100? Even a tier one soft point 4 hour module gave 250. I get not wanting BIs to be the XP breakers, but they should be worth as much as a normal slot. I personally think it’s fine if someone can’t play *all* modules and that there are exclusives for con play. I can’t think of a system or game that doesn’t have con exclusive bennies of some kind or another. Even if BIs have 250 XP, someone would have to miss 4 years of BIs to be behind 1 Rank.

    The other aspect of the reward is the gold. I’m actually fine with the gold reward as that’s not really what BIs are for.

    However, the one thing BIs I feel should give is some useful unique reward that doesn’t turn into a required item or unbalancing ability. This year’s reward was interesting and flavorful but I feel that a one time use of it just seems “meh”. Story wise maybe that’s how Fate works, but as a reward for 12 hours of play it’s lackluster in my opinion. Had it been “once / BI” that would be great. You’d get to use it once a year and it’s certainly not going to make or break any given table over the course of the event.

    In addition, there were no special favors or reputation gained (maybe those are going away?). Something like a wall of names in the First City of those who defended it, or a 5% discount on goods for a year, or something.

    Maybe I’m being too harsh, but again this is meant to give good for thought. It’s one things to make BIs not give too much so that those who can’t attend aren’t punished. However care should be taken to ensure the rewards aren’t so lacking as to discourage people from taking 12 hours out of their con to play. I have no idea what rewards the GMs got and I hope it’s commensurate with the amount of time they spent preparing and running though.

    I do think that if this is the new norm for BIs (little to no XP, one time use rewards, etc) that it be announced publicaally ahead of time so that expectations are clear and people aren’t caught off guard by what appears to be a severe drop in what folks have the opportunity to get.

    Thanks for listening,
    John

    July 6, 2014 at 12:44 pm #263740
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I want to say bravo to you, John, for having the foresight to not chime in publicly before you had a discussion here. I have always tried to follow the “praise in public, criticize in private”. In this case, if anyone has strong complaints about the rewards and wants to chime in on the public discussions, I would suggest giving empathetic statements and saying something akin to “I have my concerns as well and have addressed them privately to PCI and Campaign Staff”. This is just a suggestion, as everyone is free to make their own decisions, obviously.

    As to the rewardsI understand where you are coming from. I, personally, have no strong feelings one way or the other, as I see both sides of the coin and they both make sense. I have had some ideas about the actual tangible rewards, which I will post later in the public thread.

    July 6, 2014 at 6:12 pm #263749
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Running up the XP is a problem, because it is currently 2 cons a year.

    Imagine expanding this to support GenCon with an event, and something out west with an event. Even at 100 xp, we could be looking at a rank per year (or more) for hardcore players. The campaign is still young and we would be looking at half of a Tier gap if this is how we did it to start. Remember, there will be LARPs and Delves as well.

    At 250 it could quickly become 2-3 ranks per year.

    Could we have offered some other bonus, akin to the discount on goods, or the esteem of the people, etc. Sure, and I am not opposed to that at all.

    But right now we are facing 3 changes (at least) all concentrated in this 1 event:

    1. The Massive Damage rule
    2. Con exclusivity
    3. Reward control (due to exclusivity)

    So there is going to be even more hubbub about it than normal.

    So, what non-xp reward ideas would you guys have?

    July 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm #263752
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am not sure how to answer that, Eric. I was seeing the non-xp rewards from a story perspective. Who is giving the gold? If it is Tultipet, they have just been decimated (again). Even if they are willing to give gold out, why would they give it to the heroes instead of giving it to the human populace as restitution? (i think it would be cool to offer the gold, but gain some minor infamy with the humans of the Blessed Lands because they are profiting while they have suffered from the madness of the Tultipetan Queen)…we will see who the real Heroes are then.

    Someone mentioned exceptional items or Rune tattoos…again, Tultipet needs to rebuild. They will need to be selling their crafts, not giving it away. The examples given in the other thread were 30+Gc. That is ALOT of cash. If Heroes are paid the rate of a professional service in Arcanis (1Sc/hr), it would take all their earnings the better part of a year to make that amount. Personally, I dont see the Khitani or First City Powers-That–Be giving away a fortune like that.

    Some type of favor/gratitude would be good.

    July 6, 2014 at 10:33 pm #263769
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Imagine expanding this to support GenCon with an event, and something out west with an event. Even at 100 xp, we could be looking at a rank per year (or more) for hardcore players. The campaign is still young and we would be looking at half of a Tier gap if this is how we did it to start. Remember, there will be LARPs and Delves as well.

    At 250 it could quickly become 2-3 ranks per year.I didn’t know there were plans do (battle, delve, tournament) Interactives outside of Origins and ArcaniCon. Also, LARPs do not offer XP (5xp in some cases) and thus are of no consequence.

    July 6, 2014 at 10:59 pm #263770
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I reeled back when I saw that it was only a hundred XP reward for the delve. For an event that I paid for and 12 hours of frustration, it was kind of sticker shock. Now I’ve felt like some of the XP in the past has been extravagant. 750 for one of the BIs, 600 for a HP. But I thought that this would be more in line with some of the starting BIs. Around 450. I’m not sure what the rewards for this should have been, but it was definitely disappointing. Especially since my character can’t even use the non XP/Gold reward. What am I suppose to do with a blessing of Larissa?

    At 250XP per BI/Delve/Whatever that’s a Rank advantage every 2 years for con goers (assuming you don’t start holding GenCon BIs again). I see James wanted to do zero XP. If that’s the direction you wanted to go, I not only understand, but can get behind that. I think players should have been made aware of the shift ahead of time though. Also, if zero XP is what you guys really wanted to give out, then what kind of reward were the players suppose to receive for their efforts? Is it just the experience of the story? What other kind of rewards can there be? I’m not sure what the answer here is. Especially since, like Matt pointed out, who’s suppose to pay you? Are you going to loot the fallen Tultipetians?

    I have a question, what do you guys want to give out for BI/Delve/Whatever now that they are con exclusive?

    July 6, 2014 at 11:21 pm #263771
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    since this is not a message that will be made public:

    I have a very definite sense that there are threads that the main story are likely to follow, and I’m not faulting that side of the campaign.

    However, the portion of campaign that governs player progression seems to be all over the map, and seriously needs some attention for planning, just running things by the seat of your pants is really starting to show. Questions like “How long is the current arc”, “what tier do we want characters to be at the end of that arc”, ” how long is the bigger story arc going to go” “how many other adventures are going to be created(SPs)” I’d be willing to bet that, most of PCI has differnt answers for those questions.

    Similarly the portion of the campaign that controls player item/money rewards seems to be flying by the seat of the pants also we get “valuables” that are not valuable at all, things that are never spendable etc, Most people probably dont pay any attention to their Certs past the XP line. things here could benefit from a drastic upgrade here.

    July 6, 2014 at 11:51 pm #263774
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    As one of the folks who was disappointed by the rewards and started this thread, I have some further insights.

    XP GAP:
    While I understand the perceived need to reduce XP to keep con goers vs. non-con goers close, I still have trouble understanding how the 1-2 events a year will greatly increase this ‘gap’. From the latest BI, there were folks from 1.7 to 2.6 playing. We already have huge gaps in power levels, so I don’t understand how 250XP / “Big Event” is going to make it any worse. There are players who haven’t had a chance to play certain modules, and yet we all manage to group together. If there are definitive plans to have GenCon BI’s, West Coast BI’s, etc. in the next year, then announce that along with the overall “Each of these will be worth a maximum of 100 XP to keep from adding to the XP gap.” People are likely to be more accepting of this change when it is combined with prior knowledge and a plan to release more ‘con exclusive content’ around the country (and perhaps even in Canada).

    IDEA TO TRY:
    I was talking to Tony about this and I’d like to hear feedback: How about at the major conventions with BI’s, PCI sells “Internet Table Tickets”? Perhaps do it as a trial run with 1-2 tables max. These tables would be for those who can’t make the convention but have a strong history with Arcanis games (This campaign at least). I’d recommend that those participants have to buy Convention Badges like everyone else and have to pay a bit more for their tickets. Then you pick one of the GM’s comfortable with technology to prep/plan for running a Roll20 style table at the convention. It might take some practice and such and some leeway needs to be given, but it might be a way for a few remote folks to take part. Cost-wise, other than paying for internet for the day, someone probably has a laptop, microphone, etc. to set this up amongst the Harvesters or support staff.

    REWARD SUGGESTIONS:
    Some good rewards that could be given for this BI (and others in a general sense) instead of gold/XP are:

    1) The Fate Award as given but usable in any Hard Point or BI
    2) A Title such as “Defender of Man” or “Defender of the First City” and some social modifiers in the First City or in Tultipet
    3) A Title such as “Liberators of Tultipet” (see above) that offers discounts or special items that can purchased
    4) A discount on goods purchased during modules in the First City
    5) Access to a special ‘retainer’ that can be taken with the Loyal Companion talent or something (I forget the name of the little insect guys that like to be stewards in the First City)
    6) Access to a special mount that is common in the Blessed Lands or from the Tultipetans
    7) A unique “Larissa themed” ability/item that is usable once / adventure or something. This would be different from the “Fate” reward and might be something like “Flip a coin” and if it lands on Heads, you get a +1 on a non-Combat Skill of your choice for the adventure and if it’s Tails, you suffer a -1 to one of your Defenses or something. It can be fun and flavorful and offer some RP opportunities for many characters.
    8) Special favors with one of the remaining ‘powers’ of the First City that could be traded for a cool 1-time benefit (Reduction in magic item, research, etc.)
    9) A “Vision” from Larissa that gives the character information not otherwise known to the campaign in general.
    10) Fame/Reputation with various groups

    That’s what I have off hand

    John

    July 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm #263794
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I hope PCI has taken note of this campaign thread and the BI reward thread, and might be starting discussion on the direction they are going with rewards.

    however I would warn against flip flopping on issues, sudden reversals are likely to cause just as many problems in the campaign and are indicative of a further lack of planning.

    July 7, 2014 at 1:53 pm #263797
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    One question I’d like to pose to PCI about the ‘XP Gap’: If there is concern about the XP gap, isn’t there concern that those who were able to play the Crusade Arc are going to be an almost an entire Tier ahead of those who come in with 1.5 characters? At the time the 1.5 Cert was released, characters who played through the Crusade Arc could have been around 2.2. This is never going to close, assuming folks play the same amount of mods going forward.

    Just something that popped into my head.

    John

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