How does Enemy of My Enemy work?

Mary
I’ve never been at a table where the target of EomE ever spent more than 1 action under its effects. If for whatever reason, the target can’t move to and attack or use a ranged attack or spell against the designated target, they spend their turn trying to. However, at the end of that movement, the spell ends.

While I appreciate the tick difference in casting vs. the target’s attack, the thing to keep in mind is that the spell has 2 effects: It negates an enemy’s turn AND gives an extra turn to the caster’s side. That for 6 ticks is very impressive (strain doesn’t count as you can still perform actions while under strain).

The caster really needs to use this spell wisely. Some good targets include:
1) Enemy melee fighter within 2 squares of another enemy (to use incidental and a strong attack)
2) Enemy melee fighter more than 2 but less than 2x pace from another enemy (causing a charge, which adds speed to the attack and leaves them with 12 Avoidance)
3) Ranged/Caster with strong attacks (they can attack almost anyone)

If the caster of EomE is using it on a melee combatant too far from their designated target, the spell is only going to cause them to move towards the target then end.

If the spell’s intent was to cause the target to spend as many actions as possible until they could make an attack, it would be worded as such. There would be too many ways to exploit that (e.g. Force them to attack a creature they can’t reach due to elevation or behind a cage, etc).

Hope that helps.

John

As a GM I could see occasionally using the two action move-attack to give the PCs a bit of a break in an otherwise tough combat, but for the other 99% of the time I would completely agree with what John posted.

Maybe your GM was just going easy on you

Thanks Matt. that’s exactly how I’ve been running it.

I always rule it as when the spell is cast. The fluff says you confuse your target into viewing their ally as an emeny.

This spell has become the bane of my group’s gaming sessions. The wording is vague as to the degree of the attack.

First part, we still have arguments over how it works because of memories of past mistakes. Second, we are at a lesser statement over TWF-type attacks where a single action choice results in 2 attacks on different ticks.

And then the third part, determining how far the “extreme prejudice” attack goes. We have come into several problems involving the character’s battle prowess over immediate conditions. Will the affected character, having experience of the spell, recognize Healing Embrace is in effect on enemy target and attack target or not? Will the affected character use Smite Infidel on an ally he knows will not work and be a pointless waste? Same goes to casters on using an attack that will be ineffective on the actual target but damaging on the “assumed target”.

As costly as the spell takes 6 ticks to cast and 5 ticks of strain, you also have to factor that there is no limit on how much strain or recovery the actual action incurs, only how much damage from strain the caster would risk in performing the action. You are looking at a caster using their high strain spell combination or a melee using a powerful advance technique in addition to incidental movement. The caster may not move for another 6 ticks after and have too much strain to cast in the following 12 ticks, thus gone for a far longer time especially at higher tiers. And for a martial, taking up to 2 incidental moves, plus an advance combo technique on top of weapon speed and possibly a talent that adds another tick to the attack for another die or 2 of damage, and you won’t have to worry about him for a while.

In addition, the damage of the attack is entirely based on the tier of the target, not the caster of EoME. So unlike all the other damage spells, EoME will do more damage without augmentation as your characters progress while still remaining at Tier 1. The damaging effects would further escalate when you can do the 2 target augmentation confidently. The only real limit to the effects is that both targets must be in line of sight and in range of the caster.

The only drawback to the unlimited potential in a non-scaling spell, you have to guess if the character is under recovery or significant strain, and if the GM or player is permitted to spend a fate point to clear that pool out.

Again, Enemy of My Enemy is one of, if not the only, the spells that becomes more powerful as tiers increase without any added costs.

This spell has become the bane of my group’s gaming sessions. The wording is vague as to the degree of the attack.

First part, we still have arguments over how it works because of memories of past mistakes. Second, we are at a lesser statement over TWF-type attacks where a single action choice results in 2 attacks on different ticks.

And then the third part, determining how far the “extreme prejudice” attack goes. We have come into several problems involving the character’s battle prowess over immediate conditions. Will the affected character, having experience of the spell, recognize Healing Embrace is in effect on enemy target and attack target or not? Will the affected character use Smite Infidel on an ally he knows will not work and be a pointless waste? Same goes to casters on using an attack that will be ineffective on the actual target but damaging on the “assumed target”.

As costly as the spell takes 6 ticks to cast and 5 ticks of strain, you also have to factor that there is no limit on how much strain or recovery the actual action incurs, only how much damage from strain the caster would risk in performing the action. You are looking at a caster using their high strain spell combination or a melee using a powerful advance technique in addition to incidental movement. The caster may not move for another 6 ticks after and have too much strain to cast in the following 12 ticks, thus gone for a far longer time especially at higher tiers. And for a martial, taking up to 2 incidental moves, plus an advance combo technique on top of weapon speed and possibly a talent that adds another tick to the attack for another die or 2 of damage, and you won’t have to worry about him for a while.

In addition, the damage of the attack is entirely based on the tier of the target, not the caster of EoME. So unlike all the other damage spells, EoME will do more damage without augmentation as your characters progress while still remaining at Tier 1. The damaging effects would further escalate when you can do the 2 target augmentation confidently. The only real limit to the effects is that both targets must be in line of sight and in range of the caster.

The only drawback to the unlimited potential in a non-scaling spell, you have to guess if the character is under recovery or significant strain, and if the GM or player is permitted to spend a fate point to clear that pool out.

Again, Enemy of My Enemy is one of, if not the only, the spells that becomes more powerful as tiers increase without any added costs.

As no one official, but someone who uses this spell often, here are my thoughts:
1. It effectively “scales for free” by effecting more powerful foes, that is true, but the only scaling built into the spell is the hit to targets adjustment (which makes it interruptible which is huge). Other than that, it doesn’t have increased CTN costs to increase damage like lots of other spells do, but I think that is exactly because it scales by effecting more powerful foes. If anything, I think it the most balanced scaling spell out there because of that. (as comparing our power to enemy power)

2. The fact that the CTN doesn’t go up as this happens is meaningless because at higher tiers with most of the scaling CTN spells it is built in that you will be able to autocast with several adaptations automatically applied. If you made the base CTN of the spell only effect tier I opponents, and then added 3 to the CTN for each tier above first you wanted to be able to effect, would that matter? If you can autocast to hit the CTN needed, does it matter if the CTN is an 18 or a 24 at tier 3? The cost in this spell is in it’s horrendously long casting and high strain side, not the CTN to cast it – and that cost will stay high throughout the campaign. 11 ticks of casting/strain is huge.

3. I think if you know your target, you use what is most damaging against them. I don’t know what you mean by the actual target vs the assumed target. So know, you wouldn’t cast church specific spells at them knowing they are immune, or use a talent you know is useless. Healing embrace might remove them from combat for a tick – but the effected person isn’t going for neutralized – they’re going for dead. The question this raises in my mind is if a caster who can cast EoE would use it in response to being EoE’d himself. I would probably say no, unless he has no other significant attack options – because it doesn’t hurt the target in any real way.

4. For multiple attacks over multiple ticks, I would say the spell specifies the next attack, and thus a two weapon attack (being two) would not involve both attacks – but that said, the recipient of the spell needs to make the next attack the deadliest they can, so if some other talent/maneuver can be even slightly deadlier than the first attack of a two weapon attack – that is what they should choose.

5. Yes, you can, if you get lucky effectively remove an enemy from the combat for an entire spin of the clock, if they have to eat some movement, attack, and recovery. On the other hand, you can get them with a tick 3 base attack if you hit them at the wrong time, so the power of the spell sort of equals out – and remember, you can’t effectively use this spell over and over during a combat, since it builds a resistance in those effected by the spell previously.

6. Don’t forget the other big limitations – targets. You effectively can’t cast this spell when going up against one big bad target since you have no target to aim him at if you succeed. An I can’t count the number of times I’ve EoE “monster A” to hit “monster B,” only to have monster B die before “Monster A” goes – spell wasted.

EoE is definitely not an easy spell. It can be quite powerful, it can be almost useless – and either way it’s cost in casting time and strain is huge enough to allow casters to get truly pummelled before they work it off. I like it as a more cerebral attack spell than elemental bolt – you have to work to time it, pay attention to what enemy is doing what when, to try and get the most out of it. But honestly, I’m trying to get away from using it as a primary attack spell because it just takes too darn long, and the combat gets pretty boring after I cast it twice (taking damage the second time from strain) and then have to sit on my rump waiting for casting time and strain to bleed away for almost a full turn of the clock.

Hmmmm. You raise a valid point about whether or not you recognize the target. I have always been running it that you do recognize the target but perceive him/her/it as an enemy. That fits with the control tradition. Usually I see it through the lens of psionics which comes up a lot more than the illusion tradition in the groups I usually play with (minus a Sarishian or two).

For simplicity sake I plan to keep rolling with that approach.

But you’re right that the illusion tradition could well disguise the target. Based on the fluff text maybe the control tradition too. Rather than just banning the spell I recommend you spell out your position when you GM. Reasonable players can come out on different interpretations, but the individual GMs ruling runs while that GM has the chair. If several local GMs have different interpretations I think its okay that they’re not 100% in synch as long as everyone knows what’s what up front and everyone is having fun.