SP revisions for year 2 rounds

Well our WHR group is an outlier, since we play once a month. I wouldn’t base any such decision on us. I know all the mods haven’t been released yet, but right now there are only 7 available to play. That means a max of 45 possible SP for the home game, game day, small con crowd if they manage to play EVERYTHING.

I haven’t looked at the big con (Gencon, origins, etc) events, but it sounds like those usually gave about what? 5 different events? So 25 possible SP. And that’s for the con-goer who makes one big trip a year. What’s the data on those participants?

I’m of the mind that if a person goes to a big con and plays all the available rounds, they should have enough rewards at the end to do something cool with their character. With WH, that would mean a specialization (30 sp), a talent (50 or 75) or an ability bump (from 2 to 3, 90 pts). Skills aren’t a big consequence since they are limited by abilities. So splitting the difference there, it would seem 10 points per round would be a better baseline. That would mean after 5 rounds, I’d have enough points to:
Buy a specialization and two new skills or raise a handful of skills
Buy a new basic talent
Buy a new rite

Those last two are VERY important. Sorcerous and Fighting Traditions are entirely talent driven, so if the rewards don’t let me develop those, what’s the point in taking them?

And at 10 mods in a calendar year, right now it would take me a year of play just to buy ONE new rite or talent, at the expense of everything else. Even at 10 a round, that’s still only two such gains. So even that is low balling it.

So I definitely think it’s worth looking at. If hard core players were taking in 20+ mods a year, it might be different. Even then, looking at the math (100 sp), that’s still prett tight for real character growth in this system.

Or is that 9?

Ok, I am shocked and dismayed that not a single person has come along to say one word about this. SHOCKED. DISMAYED. C’mon people. It’s been a month. SOMEONE has to have an opinion on this one.

Tell you what. Here’s a table that breaks it all down.

This whole thing got me re-examining how much SP I’m awarding in my home game and the kind of advancement I want and expect. Not really germane to this discussion, but I felt it was worth the time to add OP figures into the mix because there are obviously a lot more OP WH players.

Tom

Clint,

I figured that. It also looks like Talents really drove advancement in 1st ed.

I’m glad that having everything laid out makes sense. Hopefully that table is useful.

For home play, this is entirely manageable. I’ve got some ideas for “recalibrating” the SP awards in a way that makes more sense (to me) that don’t blow things up.

For OP, I think the question needs to be what the ideal rate of advancement vs available rounds. Right now, it’s just far too slow. Assuming 10 rounds a years means in some cases you are saving for two years to raise a feature. That doesn’t give much incentive to play vs “I have 4 hours to kill”.

I’ll have some thoughts up on that later this week. I just need time to get them into a coherent form.

Tom

Henry,

You guys have been doing the Organized Play thing for a long time. So I feel a little silly trying to argue the whole story vs. advancement angle with you. Yes, WH hits a different niche than most flavors of DnD/d20. Adventures aren’t about amassing wealth or magical treasure. And peeling back the onion layers of deepening mysteries and being part of that shared experience is worthwhile. But I still see character advancement as the carrot that supports repeat play. Flattening the power curve doesn’t change that really. WH is still built around a framework where advancement is necessary to use more powerful abilities and take on stronger foes.

Slow progression is fine, especially with OP. You want to maximize the playability of available rounds. You don’t want a handful of dedicated but regionally fortunate players obnoxiously demanding rounds to challenge them and draining your resources for lower and intermediary rounds. But lets face it. Under the current WHR guidelines, a player will never be able to do more than increase skills (which run right smack into the hard cap applied by his or her ability scores) or maybe a Basic Talent or Rite (if you can’t think of anything else to do with your character over the course of 10 rounds—a year of play). The game just isn’t built (IMHO) to create a static character out of the box. Too many options, too many restrictions, and too many hard caps.

Story aside, character advancement creates a sense of investment in the game. Yes, I as a player I can appreciate being part of a good story. But that investment only goes so far. The tangible rewards for being part of that store have limited forms, and advancement is the biggest among those. I’m just not convinced you can build a long term audience without it.

But if the story isn’t there, the players aren’t going to keep coming back regardless of how awesome their characters are. I won’t argue that one bit.

One last thing: the last thing I’m suggesting is for WHR to shift gears to a rapid advancement model. I just think the current SP/Advancement model used is worthless. Players would be better served if advancements were hardwired into AJ. Example: Once you have played through all the year’s Hard Point rounds, your AJ directs you to raise one Ability or choose a new Talent. THAT would serve both ends, would it not?

Tom

edit: course, the absence of any other opinion on this matter might indicate just how off base I am. Until then I remain the lone voice in the wilderness.

For me, one big disadvantage with the slow advancement in the campaign is that players who are better at character creation will have more mechanically effective characters for the whole campaign. If you are good at planning ahead (go for high ability scores, load up on non-background skills), you’ll be able to make a character that is strictly better from a mechanical perspective. Those differences would normally even out a little as everyone gets more SP. Because so few SP are handed out, it remains pretty obvious.

It’s also rough to look at a cool heroic talent (or heaven forbid, a heroic fighting style), and know that you’d have to play for two or three real years to earn enough SP to purchase it.

I totally agree with you Tom. Skill points are awarded way too little I am in your campaign and after playing a few games I can better understand, and agree, with your argument. I can not see the point of having to play 15+ games in order to gain a talent. Most campaigns will not even last that many episodes