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- June 25, 2015 at 1:26 pm #151895AnonymousInactive
I’m not sure if this has been asked here before, but here are some questions regarding horses –
I wondered if anyone had any answers for stats for quality riding horses? Does quality add anything to the horse?
All of the horses in the Bestiary have Natural Armor 2, but the Riding Horse in the ARG has none. Is this an oversight?
Also, Loyal companion adds +1 to Skills and Defenses. First, does this +1 increase the Passives or just Skill rolls? Second, does the Defense increase add anything to the Stamina? Or do loyal companions never increase in Stamina?
June 25, 2015 at 2:02 pm #268724AnonymousInactiveI think Quality Riding Horse = Riding Horse with the Exceptional Specimen (from Bestiary).
I would actually say that the Bestiary is in error – horses definitely should not have NAR 2 (you might be able to convince me NAR 1 but even that seems like a stretch).
Good questions about Loyal Companion. When I played a Loyal Companion, I did add the +1 to passives but did not increase stamina (though it would make sense if it did increase (maybe not 1-for-1)).
June 25, 2015 at 2:31 pm #268725AnonymousInactiveThe way NAR, the Monstrous Trait, works is that it grants NAR 2 as the base version, +1 NAR each time you take it again after the first. If the creature is incapable of wearing armour, they get NAR 3 upon first taking the Trait. If the creature does not have the Natural Armor (Tr), then it should have no NAR.
If it does not say specifically it increases the Passives, then it does not increase the passives (see Wary (Ta) as an example). Remember, even when you are Tier 5 and have advanced your Tier 1 companion all the way, it is still a Tier 1 creature. You don’t ‘level it up’ so much as modify the statblock.
June 25, 2015 at 3:57 pm #268726AnonymousInactiveIf it doesn’t modify the passives, that makes some of the loyal companion options pretty much useless at higher tiers. For instance, iirc, the primary ability of the wolf is to grapple but without passive increases, the wolf will be useless as a grappler (since escapes and reversals are vs passive).
June 25, 2015 at 4:21 pm #268728AnonymousInactiveFrom my perspective, if the skills go up, then the trained skills passive goes up with it. Either it represents an additional skill rank which impacts the passive, or it represents the base defense and associated passive stat went up impacting the passive skill check.
With a sweep of his hat,
Paul
June 25, 2015 at 4:27 pm #268729AnonymousInactiveThat is fair, and I would love to see confirmation that it does for the above mentioned reason, but presently the rules do not suggest that.
June 25, 2015 at 4:53 pm #268730AnonymousInactiveThank you for posting the original question about the quality riding horse, as it is something I have also wondered about.
My understanding on a few points that have been raised:
The stamina should not go up. You’ll see that at the 2nd tier of Loyal Companion, your companion’s stamina becomes equal to your own, and therefore benefits from your defense bumps. If he also got to benefit from his own defense bumps, he’d be double counting, and would end up with a higher stamina pool in later tiers.
I personally interpret the +x to skills to be an increase in skill rank, given the context in which it is written. Increase passive values accordingly.
The ability of the wolf/dog is not a general “grapple”, it is a “grab”, which has it’s own special rules on P. 310.
June 25, 2015 at 5:18 pm #268731AnonymousInactiveA Grab is what initiates a Grapple though (see Grapple page 311). Grapple is kind of weird in that it is listed as a Maneuver but it is more a Status.
June 25, 2015 at 5:45 pm #268732AnonymousInactiveA Grab is what initiates a Grapple though (see Grapple page 311). Grapple is kind of weird in that it is listed as a Maneuver but it is more a Status.
Correct. The main difference is that your dog/wolf can deliver damage along with the grab; he does not have to wait to advance to pin and punish.
Hood has a War Dog named Dogmeat; I don’t think that I have yet had him try to pin anyone, since the Grab already forces the opponent to attack Dogmeat so Hood can move in and get stabby.
June 25, 2015 at 6:19 pm #268734AnonymousInactiveA Grab is what initiates a Grapple though (see Grapple page 311). Grapple is kind of weird in that it is listed as a Maneuver but it is more a Status.
Correct. The main difference is that your dog/wolf can deliver damage along with the grab; he does not have to wait to advance to pin and punish.
Hood has a War Dog named Dogmeat; I don’t think that I have yet had him try to pin anyone, since the Grab already forces the opponent to attack Dogmeat so Hood can move in and get stabby.
Depending on the opponent, pin can be insanely effective even if it doesn’t grant any more damage. When pinned, if you don’t have an unarmed attack or light balanced weapon (I missed that qualifier on my first few read-throughs) then the only option is escape (which will be hard if the pinner is built to do so (or a critter that is naturally good at it)).
Edit: and the weapon must already be drawn (draw weapon is not one of the allowable actions under pin).
June 25, 2015 at 6:23 pm #268735AnonymousInactiveTangent… Is the “Unarmed” listed under Pin the Unarmed category or specifically the Unarmed “weapon”? I’ve always treated it as any attack using the Melee (Unarmed) skill but, rereading it, I’m not clear on the intent.
June 25, 2015 at 6:47 pm #268736AnonymousInactiveTangent… Is the “Unarmed” listed under Pin the Unarmed category or specifically the Unarmed “weapon”? I’ve always treated it as any attack using the Melee (Unarmed) skill but, rereading it, I’m not clear on the intent.
I’ve always understood it to be the Unarmed skill, not the weapon; either true unarmed, cestus, gauntlet, natural weapons, etc, would apply.
June 25, 2015 at 11:47 pm #268745AnonymousInactiveThe ability of the wolf/dog is not a general “grapple”, it is a “grab”, which has it’s own special rules on P. 310.
Players wanting to use this ability should take careful note of how the attack works.
Grab attack using Bite at Speed 5 (which does no damage, as per the Grab Attack Option)
IF the attack hits, you can choose to immediately deal your Base Die in damage (NOT the full bite damage).After that, normal grapple rules apply (so Pin, then Punish). A total of 15 ticks to do damage twice (but the target is in trouble at that point).
Its not the greatest ability, unless you are in position to take advantage of that initial Grab.
June 26, 2015 at 2:18 am #268757AnonymousInactiveThanks for all of the replies. They help, but let me summarise –
A quality riding horse has the Exceptional Specimen (Bestiary p43) Variation. Is there a reference for this? I didn’t find it. Although it sounds reasonable and a quality riding hose is 5 times the normal cost.
As for NAR 2 for horses, the horse presented in the ARG doesn’t match those presented in the Bestiary. From what I read, a Threat (Creature) should have Traits equal to 2x Tier + 1 for a Flaw. The horses in the bestiary have this, but those in the ARG do not. Typically the horses in the Bestiary have Natural Armor as a trait, which gives them NAR 2. I think the horses in the ARG are earlier versions of threats and the rules were clarified later for the Bestiary versions. I’m interested to know if this has been discussed before.
With Loyal Companion, thanks for pointing out the Stamina at Tier 2. That makes sense. And the bonuses to skills will only apply to skill rolls not passives. that fits the game mechanic. And yes the defense bonuses will not increase Stamina because with Tier 2 Loyal Companion, the Stamina is in no way tied to the creature’s defenses.
I haven’t looked at other Creatures because for my character the Horse was what was relevant, but I would not be surprised if similar questions arise. I’d love to see the reference for the Quality horse, and if there has been discussion on the ARG horses (and few traits) compared with the Bestiary horses (with more traits).
June 26, 2015 at 4:16 am #268761AnonymousInactiveThe ability of the wolf/dog is not a general “grapple”, it is a “grab”, which has it’s own special rules on P. 310.
Players wanting to use this ability should take careful note of how the attack works.
Grab attack using Bite at Speed 5 (which does no damage, as per the Grab Attack Option)
IF the attack hits, you can choose to immediately deal your Base Die in damage (NOT the full bite damage).After that, normal grapple rules apply (so Pin, then Punish). A total of 15 ticks to do damage twice (but the target is in trouble at that point).
Its not the greatest ability, unless you are in position to take advantage of that initial Grab.
This is true, however, in many instances Hood has his opponent finished off before the dog gets to attack again. In any case, I view the main benefit of the dog as taking the opponent’s attention, and giving Hood his wolf pack/advanced tactics bonuses. And once Dogmeat gets his advanced training he’ll be able to do takedowns as well. But yes; the benefit of dogs/wolves is not damage/tick.
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