1 minor stacking question

WM4 says specifically DAMAGE rolls, and Primal Self says specifically MIGHT rolls. As such, they do not add to the same thing, so they would stack. After all, WM4 can apply just as well to a Quick Weapon (like a Short Sword) and give the same bonus to either Quicknesss or Might since it is a bonus applied to the weapon.

Edit: Eric, Primal Self is a BL Talent, not a spell.

I dispute that owing to the fact that while they are static bonuses, they are not being applied to the same thing. One is applying to damage rolls, and other might rolls. While Might rolls are often used in damage rolls, they are themselves not damage and therefore a different target of a static bonus.

with respect I disagree with that.

There are different “pools” you can get bonuses from (static or otherwise) … talents, spells yadda yadda. Bonuses from within the same source don’t stack unless noted somewhere.

I get the idea that a bonus to might rolls (including might damage) and a bonus to (all) damage are different, partially overlapping circles of a potential ven diagram.

IMO I don’t think that matters. I think you just get the most advantageous bonus within the source (in this case talents).

By the logic of the “its different” argument one could also advance an argument that that a talent which gave a bonus to any roll involving a sword could also stack with the above. Or a talent that gave a gnome a bonus to when using his or her left hand … they are different things. (might rolls, damage rolls, using a sword for something rolls, left handed gnome rolls…) I am admittedly being a little tongue in cheek here, but even if you don’t agree with me I think you see where I’m going. Different bonuses within a source gets messy & complicated & and maybe invites cheese weaseling. And leads to debates on what really counts as different.

The most advantageous bonus within a pool is clear and easy to administer.

In the early days of the news rules system, on the old dead boards that crashed, there was an argument about combining Smite Infidel (bonus die based on Charisma) with some other talent that also gave a bonus die to damage off of a different stat. The argument split the community fairly evenly…and Pedro even initially posted that because they were different stats the bonuses were “different” and would then stack. But everyone eventually backtracked from that position when we took a harder look at what it would be like to potentially have 8 stacking bonus dice per “source” … a nightmare. Now its just your biggest bonus dice.

I don’t think your arguments are crazy, but I’m also not following that interpretation at tables I judge. I am fine with other judges going the other way. If its a big issue for some builds it would be nice if the campaign staff wants to weigh in.

Real life logic: A strong man works better with a sharper weapon so they should stack as affecting different things.

A weapon damage roll utilizing (Might) is a Might roll. As such, they do NOT stack (assuming same source type).

Additional clarification then, in the spell, “Bestial Form,” where it says, “Special (val’Dellenov): If you cast this spell while under the effects of The Primal Self Bloodline Talent, you gain a +2 bonus to damage and all Might and Quickness Action Skill Rolls.” This is redundant, right? Since a +2 bonus to all might and quickness action skill rolls will already give the aforementioned +2 to damage. Unless it is meant to indicate (which seems odd, but could go with the wording) that you get +2 on damage other than those based on might and quickness – like spells.

Bestial Form = Spell
Primal Self = Talent

Yes, but if bestial form is cast when one is under the effect of primal self, one gets both a +2 on damage, and a +2 on might and quickness action skills rolls from the bestial form spell. Since +2 on damage is redundant to +2 on might/quickness action skill rolls (if it is a weapon), and both are from the spell, isn’t that redundant? Why say +2 on damage, and then say +2 on might/action skill roles, unless the spell also gives a +2 on damage from spells cast (which seems to be what it is saying, but I find that hard to believe considering the nature of the spell) – or in case a bonus on damage were different than a bonus on might/quickness action skills roles (which campaign staff has said it isn’t). Thus the request for clarification.

Source: Spell; Bonus: Static — Note that the Special changes the Source of the bonus!

Where do you see that the special changes the source, it still appears to be spell.