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- March 30, 2016 at 3:25 am #152226AnonymousInactive
OK, so I want to confirm some of what we know about various Citadels in the Blessed Lands, and possibly request clarification on some possibly missing information.
1. We know there are active Ansharan Gates in the Illirite Citadel (per LA-HP6-05, but not mentioned in the Blessed Lands Book) and the Citadel of Anshar.
2. We have been led to believe that 4 of the Citadels in the Blessed Lands have gates that were used to move troops around during the emperium, in approximately a four corners of the compass layout. (where did I get that?)
3. The Coryani church staffs the Citadel’s of Yarris, Anshar, Sarish, Illiir, Hurrian, and Saluwe. Khitani church/forces staff the Citadel of Larissa. the Citadel of Cadic is deserted, and the Citadels of Nier and Beltine/Neroth are unaccessable. The Citadel of Saluwe, while inhabited, is only minimally explored. The level of exploration of the Citadel of Cadic is also unknown.
4. If the gates really are spread out to help cover the Blessed Lands, than we should be able to rule out the Citadel of Larissa, the missing temple of Nier, and probably the Citadels of Sarish, Hurrian, and Beltine/Neroth as being too close to an existing gate to house a Gate, though there is no way to know if the Larissan, Nier, or Beltine/Neroth Citadels would have them.
5. If the assumptions from #4 are correct, that leaves Yarris, Althares, Cadic, and Saluwe as potential homes for gates. The last two, Cadic and Saluwe, appear the most likely to hold a gate without people being aware of it.
So the key question is, since we know there is a gate in the Citadel of Illiir, but it wasn’t mentioned in the book, are either of the other two gates purported to be in Citadels known?
If not, what are people’s guesses as to where they might be?Yarris’s seems the most obvious since it stands out all by itself so much, especially with a dangerous swamp between in and any reinforcements. But that also seems unlikely since it is one of the most used and has never been uninhabited by followers.
That leaves Altheres as a potential known location, and if one is there it seems likely people would know about it, especially since it would be the closest functioning gate to the First City, right?
Even if the Cadic Citadel is in a meaningless location now, I am a bit surprised no Cadician sect has populated it, and if it has a gate it would still be useful for getting people around the Blessed Lands quickly.
The Citadel of Saluwe seems highly likely, since it is the furthest into the Vastwood, and thus the most likely to need help during the Emperium. It’s also not fully explored, so the gate could just not yet be discovered yet. Thoughts? It seems a very strong reason to explore the Citadel further, since adding a known gate there would dramatically improve the Coryani ability to defend against Khitani incursions.
March 30, 2016 at 4:36 am #272112AnonymousInactiveTwo things, the Blessed Lands book does appear to have some minor ret-con adjustments (as a consolidated source) over what appears in adventures.
Also a case of Chicken and Egg, I think.
Which came first? The Citadels or the Gates? If the gates were built after the Citadels, I would expect them to be distributed according to the Pantheon (Althares, Saluwe, Illiir, Yarris; as the ‘elder’ gods) on the cardinal points.
March 30, 2016 at 6:22 am #272113frootsnaxParticipantI have always suspected that the Citadel of Hurrian has one since it it the primary defense against the Vastwood/elorii. I admit it’s just something that I’ve always thought makes sense. With one in the Illirite Citadel and the rough proximity I admit it’s not clear to me if that makes sense for “full coverage” of approaches to the First City. Still I like the idea.
I think the Citadel of Cadic is a good guess for one…though that would make it harder to believe it’s abandoned. Then again Cadic “told the first lie” so OOC I don’t take the statement that its abandoned at full face value. Maybe there are Cadicians of som stripe there … If there is a Gate then it would also help explain how they get in and out of the unseen.
The Citadel furthest East would be Sarish. I think it’s a contender for a Gate.
While Pecinium would make a lot of sense geographically, we’ve been there and there’s no sign of one. Given the detail given to it in the BL Book if it was there in a revision then I would think it’d be mentioned. I assume there is no Gate there.
March 31, 2016 at 4:08 am #272119AnonymousInactiveThere’s one odd sentence in the original Codex Arcanis that makes a claim about the Citadels of the Pantheon that I don’t think is mentioned in the new Blessed Lands book: “These archaic edifices dated back to before the First Imperium.” [Codex Arcanis, 1st ed., p.36]
I wonder whether it means that the humans built the Citadels before building their new nation, or if the Citadels had predated the arrival of men to Onara.
March 31, 2016 at 4:18 am #272121AnonymousInactiveThere’s one odd sentence in the original Codex Arcanis that makes a claim about the Citadels of the Pantheon that I don’t think is mentioned in the new Blessed Lands book: “These archaic edifices dated back to before the First Imperium.” [Codex Arcanis, 1st ed., p.36]
I wonder whether it means that the humans built the Citadels before building their new nation, or if the Citadels had predated the arrival of men to Onara.
It’s far more likely that Anlock Heptu, Savant-Scribe of the Temple of Hophis was simply wrong about the age of the citadels.
With a sweep of his hat,
Paul
March 31, 2016 at 4:32 am #272122AnonymousInactiveWe have been led to believe that 4 of the Citadels in the Blessed Lands have gates that were used to move troops around during the Imperium, in approximately a four corners of the compass layout. (where did I get that?)
That information was in LA-HP6-5 “A Host Divided against Itself”, p. 7:“The Citadels were built to safeguard humanity when it first took possession of the First City. Each of the Citadels form a sort of ring about the Blessed Lands. Four of the Citadels, located roughly at each of the cardinal points, have a Portal of Anshar within so that troops could be shifted quickly. This citadel , which once protected mankind against attacks form Elonbé, has one.”
March 31, 2016 at 4:48 am #272123AnonymousInactiveThis thread reminds me that I’d long ago theorized that the Citadels of the Pantheon might be laid out in a pattern matching that of the ancestral lands of the corresponding Val families. Looking at the map in the Blessed Lands book, though, that doesn’t seem to match. Considering also the location of the Pearl, reputedly originally dedicated to Yarris, that doesn’t match either Citadels or ancestral lands. Does anyone else see any patterns there?
March 31, 2016 at 5:39 am #272124AnonymousInactiveThe Citadel of Yarris is located in the City of Pecinium.
Players had the opportunity to explore the city in the 3.5 campaign, in a Hard Point module called The Word of Illiir. There is no mention of there being a Portal of Anshar in the Citadel, in the city, or even on the island.
The Citadel of Anshar was visited in an Anchor Point module called Sibling Rivalry. And it did have a Portal.
And The Citadel of Illiir was visited in a Hard Point called A Host Divided Against Itself. It also had a Portal located in it.
Southernskies is correct The Blessed Lands book would take precedent over what is written in these modules.
But if we assume for a moment that there are 4 Portals at rough cardinal points around the Blessed Lands, and they were placed there for rapid troop movement.
There is one with Anshar (South)
There is one with Illiir (East)
And the Citadel of Yarris does NOT have one.
Saluwe is the best guess for North as it has not been explored fully.
Althares probably has the best argument for west. Which is odd as it is still east of the First City. But it does allow troops to quickly move south to Larissa or north to Cadic.Even if the quote pointed out by Dante is out of date, it is good to note it doesn’t say they formed a circle around the First City. It says they formed a circle around the Blessed Lands.
That is my look at the Citadels. And I completely agree it would very fun to explore some more of them, and see what secrets we could learn.
March 31, 2016 at 1:41 pm #272129AnonymousInactiveI think the Citadel of Cadic is a good guess for one…though that would make it harder to believe it’s abandoned. Then again Cadic “told the first lie” so OOC I don’t take the statement that its abandoned at full face value. Maybe there are Cadicians of some stripe there … If there is a Gate then it would also help explain how they get in and out of the unseen.
I agree. I was careful in my wording to not state that the Citadel was empty. I don’t care how remote the location may be now, a major fortress dedicated to a god with who knows what still in it should not be ignored, if for no other reason to deny it to another power. Look at how many other fortresses and monasteries are placed out in the middle of no where in the mountains around the Blessed Lands that are fully stocked with people!
March 31, 2016 at 10:44 pm #272144AnonymousInactiveThe Citadel of Yarris is located in the City of Pecinium.
Players had the opportunity to explore the city in the 3.5 campaign, in a Hard Point module called The Word of Illiir. There is no mention of there being a Portal of Anshar in the Citadel, in the city, or even on the island.
I agree on inferring that the Citadel of Yarris doesn’t have a portal, but it’s not explicitly stated that there isn’t one. The Blessed Lands book doesn’t state that for any Citadels.In “The Word of Illiir,” the PCs start in Solanos Mor helping a rebel-aligned group, and they are teleported by wizards (D&D 3.5 rules) to Pecinium. Once they have the Spike of Eternity, the PCs explicitly can’t travel by teleportation nor portal but have to travel the old-fashioned way due to the relic’s power. Thus, even if there were a portal in Pecinium, it would have been irrelevant to the module.
Thus, we can’t entirely rule out the possibility of an Ansharan Portal in the Citadel of Yarris.
March 31, 2016 at 11:54 pm #272147AnonymousInactiveThe Citadel of Yarris is located in the City of Pecinium.
Players had the opportunity to explore the city in the 3.5 campaign, in a Hard Point module called The Word of Illiir. There is no mention of there being a Portal of Anshar in the Citadel, in the city, or even on the island.
I agree on inferring that the Citadel of Yarris doesn’t have a portal, but it’s not explicitly stated that there isn’t one. The Blessed Lands book doesn’t state that for any Citadels.In “The Word of Illiir,” the PCs start in Solanos Mor helping a rebel-aligned group, and they are teleported by wizards (D&D 3.5 rules) to Pecinium. Once they have the Spike of Eternity, the PCs explicitly can’t travel by teleportation nor portal but have to travel the old-fashioned way due to the relic’s power. Thus, even if there were a portal in Pecinium, it would have been irrelevant to the module.
Thus, we can’t entirely rule out the possibility of an Ansharan Portal in the Citadel of Yarris.
I will note that the Khitani apparently did conquer the Citadel during one of the wars. Considering their distaste for the portals, and it’s obvious military use to their enemies, I could see that there used to be a portal there. I fully suspect you can move a portal if you don’t care about it still functioning afterward…
So the question might be, if I was a Khitani and took a fortress with a gate in it, where would I put it… Dropping it in the sea sounds good, but it is right next to the Citadel of Yarris, so maybe not… Maybe ship it to their island next door and bury it?
If that were the case, and there is a gate in the Citadel of Saluwe, and there are 4 gates in the First City, that would have provided excellent coverage during the empire.
April 1, 2016 at 6:38 am #272151AnonymousInactiveThus, even if there were a portal in Pecinium, it would have been irrelevant to the module.
Not quite. In the 3.5 campaign Portals of Anshar were much more common. So their location was always stated so any player that was collecting them via the Walk the Path of Stars bloodline or by being a cleric of Anshar with the Travel Domain had the opportunity to attune to them. Whether or not they have any relevance to the module itself.
Besides the Spike doesn’t come into play in the module The Word of Illiir, it appears in the Hard Point that follows, The Banished. At that point you have left Pecinum and never have the opportunity to explore the city with the Spike in your possession.
The Word of Illiir is designed as a free format investigation module, where the players have the opportunity to gather information about the city and to get to know notable NPCs in the city, including the Ruler of the City at the time. The Commandant of the Scaled Guard.
If a Portal was there it would have been mentioned. You are also on an island it’s not like anyone could keep that a secret for so long.No it makes more sense that if there are 4 portals in the 11 Citadels, that they are all east of the First City. Mind you it is still “if” that 4 exist at all.
I fully suspect you can move a portal if you don’t care about it still functioning afterward…
Actually a Portal can be moved and still function. In the Soft Point Wrong Turn at Coryan (written by Eric Wiener and M. Sean Molley) a PC can know that 3 Portals had been moved in history and still function. Grand Coryan, Tralia, and Naeraanth.
Perhaps there is a Portal in the Citadel of Larissa. It would make the Jade Box more valuable being able to secretly transport troops from Khitani to a Citadel controlled by them to strike at their enemies.April 1, 2016 at 7:06 pm #272159AnonymousInactiveActually a Portal can be moved and still function. In the Soft Point Wrong Turn at Coryan (written by Eric Wiener and M. Sean Molley) a PC can know that 3 Portals had been moved in history and still function. Grand Coryan, Tralia, and Naeraanth.
Perhaps there is a Portal in the Citadel of Larissa. It would make the Jade Box more valuable being able to secretly transport troops from Khitani to a Citadel controlled by them to strike at their enemies.Yah, I thought we knew it could be moved and keep working, but I knew if that was the case you could move it if you didn’t care about keeping it working…
As for the Citadel of Larissa and the Jade Box, I don’t understand. The Khitani have (or had) plenty of gates in their own kingdom if they wanted to use them, but since they are associated with Anshar, whom they do not trust, they instead buried or trapped or did something nasty to them, and certainly don’t use them. I don’t think they would want the Jade Box to use either. So if there is a Gate in the Citadel of Larissa, it question becomes if the Khitani can actually destroy gates, or if they just bury them or something.
It makes me wonder if some less trustworthy Khitani would be willing to sell their gates. After all, they’re not using them…
April 1, 2016 at 7:09 pm #272160AnonymousInactiveI should point out that there is an example of a gate in former Khitani land: the one outside of Zhuan in HaitiHaina. It wasn’t destroyed, it was just abandoned in a forest. I doubt the Khitani would actively destroy a “gift of the gods”, but they certainly would let it languish and fall into disrepair and ignore it.
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