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- This topic has 8 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 8 months ago by frootsnax.
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- July 25, 2019 at 8:39 pm #153059AnonymousInactive
If there is an ambiguous wording on a rule, something contradicts another in one of the handbooks, or just doesn’t seem correct in context, where would we go to submit player feedback about rules?
July 26, 2019 at 6:49 am #277370frootsnaxParticipanthere? Or on the FB page for Arcanis. What’s up?
July 26, 2019 at 4:34 pm #277372AnonymousInactivehere? Or on the FB page for Arcanis. What’s up?
In my opinion, the 5e Knight of The Phoenix Archetype is broken. The mastiff is weak compared to other Animal Companion Class Features (say, the Sky Knight’s Giant Eagle/Griffon, which has nearly 5x the HP and Multiattack), and it’s outright missing it’s 7th Level Class Ability.
July 27, 2019 at 1:08 am #277374frootsnaxParticipantBeing underpowered is the opposite of broken…
But yes, I agree with you. I also think the mechanics of the Knight of the Phoenix is at best “lack-luster.” (in 5e. I think its great in ARP) I originally wanted to make my main 5e character a KotP … but passed after looking at the nuts and bolts of what the class does. Sadly I think the problems are features and not bugs, so even if you could get the attention of Henry & PCI I don’t see how to fix it in 5e.
As I see it, the two core features of the class are: (A) that you are empathically bonded to a big dog & (B) that if you are killed, then the dog is immediately & permanently sacrificed for you to be reborn. It’s a cool concept. And I love the fluff and the mysteries that swirl about the Order.
In a lower-magic “sword & sorcery” world like Conan (or the ARP ruleset) this is an amazing mechanical ability! But that’s not true in a high magic world like Dungeons and Dragons. Being immediately reborn in D&D is called revivify which is 3rd level spell, that all low level clerics can cast. Not much of a capstone power. Even before loosing your dog. IMO the concept just doesn’t translate well.
July 27, 2019 at 1:51 am #277375AnonymousInactiveIt’s really a shame: I love all the Feats, the Combat School, the Lore… it’s just that other classes can fulfill the same role as KotP, just better (Master of Hounds get replaceable Mastiffs, Sky Knight is simply better, even the Shaman can do a better job of having an Animal Companion [Technically a Spirit]) If you want better Melee, you have Champion, Myrmidon, etc. I really want the class to be good, since I just love the concept.
July 27, 2019 at 10:01 am #277376frootsnaxParticipantAgreed.
Possible options.
(a) Save your Knight of the Phoenix character for the ARP rule set. In ARP the KotP Path is as great as we want it to be. My backup character (to Tukufu) is Szymon val’Holryn, Knight of the Phoenix.
(b) Stay D&D and go (val Holryn/Woodszif) Ranger (Master of Hounds) and take one of the Knight backgrounds. Say you are a Knight of the Phoenix but, like the Duke, you haven’t bound your hound yet (for one reason or another). Or maybe better, you could say that you are a Knight of the Court of Tralia who aspires to join the KotP.
(c) Stay D&D and go Fighter/Holy Champion (Myrmidon, Stormlord, whatever…), Knight Background, and say you are a Knight of the Phoenix but your hound has already perished, in either a freak accident or as part of the Crusade.
While you can’t directly take the Phoenix Wings Combat School as a Feat under options B & C you can take Personal Combat Style and poach most of the techniques and maneuvers. You won’t be able to take Shield Feint since it has the unique tag but Blade High, Beast Low(if you have an animal companion), Reactive Strike & Shield Defense capture a lot of the KotP’s flavor.
August 11, 2019 at 4:30 pm #277407AnonymousInactiveHeads up:
I’m looking at revising the archetype in response to player input…
August 11, 2019 at 4:38 pm #277408AnonymousInactiveHeads up:
I’m looking at revising the archetype in response to player input…
I can only suggest two things:
1. Buff the Mastiff’s base stats.
2. Make the Mastiff progress separately for the Knight, so even if the Mastiff dies, you retain all of you class abilities. (I.e. Mastiff gains X at 3 level, Knight gets Y at 3 level that can be used without the Mastiff)
August 13, 2019 at 5:36 am #277413frootsnaxParticipantHey Pedro, glad to see you are taking a second look at it.
I also think the stats of the bonded dog are not that impressive as written. Perhaps a little/moderate upward movement would be welcome. But regardless of the Hounds stats IMO the REAL challenge and mechanical issue is how to handle the death and resurrection features. ONE: I think it (the fiery resurrection) should be granted somewhere in lower levels which would match when clerics get a similar ability (by casting 3rd level spells). Thematically it would also click in as a defining feature of the archetype as it should. And TWOis what to do with a PC who dies and is born and looses the dog. As written they loose ALL features of the archetype and are essentially a fighter without any archetype. That’s just wrong.
For whatever my 2 cents is worth, I would suggest that each “dog” feature you unlock by level, have a matching “my dog died” feature in the archetype. If your knight dies and is reborn then you would swap out the features. Being a Knight of the Phoenix should be cool wether or not your dog has died. IC it should suck that your dog has died. But mechanically the archetype still needs to be playable. For example a “My Dog Died” feature might be called something like “I feel hollow inside with out my Dog,” and might translate into advantage against charm and fear spells since you are emotionally distant.
Good luck. Hope we see a rewrite soon!
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