Jeggal Sagg (and Belisarda…)

Yes. Jeggal Sagg has gotten “weirder” in this edition. Once upon a time in the original campaign he was supposed to be 1 of 12 children of Kassegore and Yig … the semi-divine True Dragons. Now? That’s a story that the new Ssethregore book implies (OOC) to be false. For that matter the True Dragons are supposedly more or less than what they seem too. Hard to know what “origin story” they are hiding or how that might affect how others see them … I mean the primary thing about them is that they are flying lizards capable of leveling mountains single handedly. And that they are tougher than valinor. Hard to see that discovering that they have secretly been something like “infernal lords” or “elemental lords” or something else other than HUGE reptiles would make much difference. I have always assumed there is some kind of extra planar connection with the true dragons since they warred with the mostly extrapljnar Celestial Giants.

I haven’t tried the idea that Jeggal Sagg is truly a god like Korlak but has chosen not to have real priests for strategic or tactical reasons. Probably not true, but kind of a neat idea.

Still leaves the question of what is Belisarda’s relationship with beasts? And if there are primal spirits or “beast lords” associated with her.

I think you’d be surprised what they truly are.
There are still a lot of secrets to be uncovered, even after 20 years.

To ride the side rail about True Dragon’s away from the talk of Jeggal Sagg for a moment, let me just provide these tidbits (quoting from published texts is allowed, right? – if anyone would rather I didn’t please let me know and I will delete)

First a quote from Pilgrimage Chapter 1, by BEAST, documenting the results of a private table

A follower of Jeggal Sag BEAST met reported dreaming a Jeggal Sag induced dream, saying thus “I have dreamt of a great dragon, a dragon that has been imperiling little people up in the north. In my dream, some Disciples came together to try to control this horrible beast… and they failed. They failed because it is not a true dragon. All the tales we have heard of the dragons being the first born of Kassegore, it is a lie. Not all of them are. Only Jeggal Sag was. We have been told the story that all dragons come from Kassegore. That is a lie. They are not from here. They are not of here. They should not be here. I saw them travelling through a giant gate, similar to the portals that we used to use but much, much larger, and they came travelling through, following these giants. These eight giants. Many, many years ago. I have come to the great Beastmaser for guidance. For if we cannot control this great beast, how do we fight him?” This follower also indicated that Jeggal Sag did not fight alongside the dragons, but was mistook as one accidently by the Valinor.

Next is from the the heading for Astinax in the Dramatis Personae of the new Ssethregore book where it says the following about the True Dragon:

One of four known True Dragons still in existence on Arcanis, Astinaxarathulumn, or Astinax as she is now called, suffered a near mortal wound during the waning days of the Dragon War from a celestial valinor. She crashed in the Kraldjur Morass, where she healed over the centuries, thanks to the ministrations of the nagas of House Kahss. Now, after many years of planning, her carefully crafted machinations to take control of the Ssethregoran Empire are ready to put in motion. All that stands in her way are the varn and their knowledge of what she and the rest of her kind truly are.

Third, we have this quote from Pg 247 of “Psionics Unbound” concerning the what the giants know of the Silence

In the oldest and most obscure texts possessed by the Dwarves there is a small passage mentioning a race of “vermin and parasites that long dogged the steps of their ancient foes throughout their journey through the stars. Silent in word and deed the maddening gibbering of their thoughts told only of conquest and servitude to Oblivion.

So, tying these three sources together we can see
1. They are not from here, and they are not servants of Kassegore
2. They have some purpose or reason that the Varn would not like them
3. The dwarves noted that the silence followed in their wake.

To me, this makes a pretty strong case that they could be servants or tools of the Silence. I think it is less likely that they are true servants of the silence (Since we have seen nothing to indicate it) but maybe just sources of chaos and destruction sort of designed to go in front of the Silence and tear down existing defensive infrastructure to soften things up for the Silence.

I think it is actually unlikely they are direct Servants of the Silence because in a “Host Divided Against Itself” Villa’tavorentes kept its word to bathe the heroes in its blood if they freed it, saying, “My word is my bond.” One of the strongest possible followers of the Silence is known as “The Oathbreaker,” someone who could undo Sarishan oaths. Nothing I have seen has ever indicated that servants of the Silence have anything like honor when dealing with others, and thus this makes me question whether the True Dragons are servants of the Silence.

Thoughts?

Bonus question: from the quote from the new book – one of 4 known true dragons on Arcanis? Who are the 4? She wouldn’t be counting Jeggal Sag so there is Astinax, Villa’tavorentes, and the undead dragon – who’s the 4th?

Just really quick, the Dwarven text you mentioned is referring to the Voiceless Ones, not the Dragons.

Yes and no. “parasites that long dogged the steps of their ancient foes” the Voiceless ones were the parasites. The ancient foes were the dragons. The celestial giants saw the voiceless ones as vermin, but they were vermin that were seen in proximity to True Dragons.

I assume that the 4 Dragons referenced include JS. If not then there is an unnamed True Dragon running around in the shadows somewhere. I am only aware of three of them. Greenie, Blue, and the undead one.

Okay. Discovering that the Dragons were agents of the Silence *would* fundamentally change the way that I look at them. But I really don’t think this is true, despite the three reasonable points TooDeep listed. We have had some limited contact with two of the True Dragons over the years and they just don’t feel like the Silence.

I am not entirely sure what other options are out there. I don’t really doubt that they are extraplanar in some capacity. But to discover that they are celestial, fiendish or elemental doesn’t change much about the facts on the ground or how I look at them in or out of character. Mostly out of sight, out of mind. Eat cities when angry. Weakly allied with Ssethregore.

What’s left? The Fractured Depths? Again, *really* doesn’t feel right.

That covers most of the planes except the “Primal Chaos” of the core of the Universe? (well allegedly see Sorcerous Pacts) … To my knowledge we have nothing concrete to compare against the True Dragons, so I guess this is possible. The only reference to the agents of Chaos are from the “earth lord” Gorum and he just says they want to melt and rebuild creation in search of perfection. No comments on what they look like or what powers they wield. Is there any evidence that the Dragons seek to destroy and remake Arcanis? That should anger the Varn (among a lot of others), but I don’t really see any evidence of that. Or for that matter any evidence that the True Dragons could even if they wanted to.

Ssssoooo…. Going to put a chip down on something else and wait to see what new puzzle pieces eventually turn up.

I don’t think that the True Dragons are descended from Kassegore and Yig per the dreams provided by Jeggal Sag.

In terms of cosmology, I think we are seeing different faiths putting different spins on things.

Ssethregore has the primary dieties of Destruction and Creation (though Yig needs Kassegore to really create things, so maybe this is a bad axis)

PoM has Earth – Sun

Belisarda may be part of a Life-Death (Nayal) axis.

With other gods tucked of fundamental concepts tucked in around (like Yarris) or maybe serving on lesser axis of earth vs. air, fire vs water. The same 12-16 (Say) gods may be serving in different aspects in different faiths, but who is “on top” (or even included) may be a function of the design of that races faith.

I really haven’t worked it out as a full concept yet, but that’s the direction I’m playing with. These are the things that traditional ancient religions gave a lot of power to.

Bonus question: from the quote from the new book – one of 4 known true dragons on Arcanis? Who are the 4? She wouldn’t be counting Jeggal Sag so there is Astinax, Villa’tavorentes, and the undead dragon – who’s the 4th?
The undead one is called Luqun’qun’ovn and he was a Blue dragon Codex Arcanis pages 161-162
I can’t find the passage from my memory on the 4th dragon. The passage was short, and the very last word was cut off, it was written in the style of found text that was damaged. The passage implied the dragon was a Black Dragon, and it is located in the The Blackwood.