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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Given all the work on the Blessed Lands book my money is on something in that area. There are no doubt a ton of ruined sites yet to be explored in this region. Imagine encountering a buried site that once belonged to the Issori. That's something we haven't run across for the most part, although if memory serves wasn't there something involving the "bugs" in the previous campaign? Just food for thought. :)

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Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:56 pm 
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Well, unless PCI/Tony decides something different, the PLAYERS decided on the Auxunite Fortress in Almeric as the next one as it had the second highest number of votes for where the Emerald Society was going to dig (the Vault got #1). While entirely possible that they will change their mind as to the setting, it most likely will be the fortress last I heard (a while ago).

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Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Don't get me wrong Cody I have no problem digging around in an Auxunite fortress ruin in Almeric. It just occurred to me that there are plenty of ruins in the Blessed Lands that warrant investigation. Just sayin... :)

On a related note it might be interesting to find something in that old fortress ruin that has some bearing on the history of Arcanis, or Milandir or the Coryani Empire. Don't know what that might be but as I said it could be interesting...something to make this delve more that just a grab for sweet loot (not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

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Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:21 pm 
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At long last, I have gained access to the Coryani Calendar found in the original Codex Arcanis (mk. 1.0)! Speaking for myself, I do not know why it was removed from subsequent printings (page count?). I personally think it provides a great deal of insightunits he world, but that is me. In fact, after analyzing the calendar for some time (plotting out dates and the like that we know of. . . that I can find), I have found a few insights I think worthy of a Musing.

First of all, we know that the Coryani make use of a lunar calendar. This is not strange at all, as many cultures (in fact, most cultures) on Earth have made use of such calendars because of how consistent they are. After all, throughout all of known human history, it has taken the moon 29.5 days to complete its cycle, which is readily apparent to anyone who looks at it. Of course, using our future-space-knowledge, we know that such lunar calendars are not accurate for the SEASONS, as one SOLAR year would be almost 12.4 Lunar months. The calendar the most of the world uses now decided to retain the months as units of time, but otherwise they have pretty much lost their meaning in favour of the more accurate judging of our local seasons.

Arcanis does not have this issue. In fact, we know that the Arcanis Year is 364 days, which is slightly shorter than our own year. Second--probably for ease of calculations by Henry and all--the lunar periods of Aperio and Viridis are 28 and 91 days, respectively. This means that there is no pesky decimals when dealing with number of lunar months and solar years: 13/year for Aperio and 4/year for Viridis. This means that, aside from personal preference, there is nothing which proves that one system is better than another. As mentioned, this is probably only because PCI didn't want to deal with crazy shit like calculating exactly what date corresponds to what month, but it also (from a political standpoint) makes arguments about what calendar to use less harsh. After all, aside from words, both calendars are perfectly reasonable to use.

What makes Coryan strange is that it uses a very strange system of weeks. For example, we know that a Coryani week is 8 days, which is not a multiple of 28, 91, or 364. This means that years begin (alternatively) on Godsday (presumably their version of Sunday among Christians) and Census (the 5th day of the week). In fact, there are 3.5 weeks/Coryani (Aperio) month which seems too precise to be simple happenstance. One reason for this could be that each month (over a 2 year cycle) will begin on a Godsday. In Coryan, each of the months is dedicated to one of the 12 Gods of the Human Pantheon (except Numen, which is dedicated to the Emperor). This could mean that there could be religious festivals every 2 years for each of the Gods which takes place on the Godsday on the 1st of their Month. So, one year Illiir, Larissa, Nier, Sarish, Cadic, and Beltine are honoured, while the next Saluwe', Althares, Anshar, Hurrian, Neroth, and the Emperor of Coryan are honoured by religious festivals.

Using the dates provided by the Codex, we also learn some interesting things about he astrography of the Arcanis planetary system. As far as we know, the star of Arcanis (the Sun/Illiir/etc) is a Yellow dwarf (G4-class star) just like our own. Assuming that Arcanis and Earth have the same orbital velocity (which is not guaranteed, as none of the planets in our solar system have the same velocity as Earth), this means that Arcanis is SLIGHTLY closer to its star than Earth is to the Sun (by about 1/3 of a percent), which means--assuming Arcanis' star is as old and hot as our own--that Arcanis has a SLIGHTLY warmer climate than Earth.

Moving away from the planet, we see some very interesting traits among the two moons of Arcanis. Of note, we know that Viridis (the Green Moon) has an phase period more than 3x that of our own moon. While it is not 100% true, moons (in our solar system) tend to be tidally locked to their primary, which is why there is a "Light Side" and "Dark Side" of our moon. The moon isn't always having one side in light and dark, but because it is tidally locked to Earth we never see the 'Dark' side. This means (using math I myself do not fully understand) that the lunar period of a Tidally locked body is directly related to the distance between the two bodies than a specific orbital velocity. Assuming this interpretation of physics stands up (any astrophysicists out there?), this would imply that the distance between Arcanis and Viridis is a little over 3x as distant from Arcanis as the Moon is from us. This, on the face of it, doesn't really mean much, but it truly does have some major connotations. For one, Earth's Moon is REDICULOUSLY far away from the Earth. For reference, the Moon is 384,400 km (or 1.28 light seconds), while Mars' moon Phobos is 1/41 that distance. That is 1/142nd the distance from Earth to Mars at its closest approach, or 1/109th the distance between Earth and Venus at its closest approach. This is HUGE distance, and from my (admittedly incomplete) understanding of astrophysics suggests that Viridis has to be a fairly large body to remain tidally locked at such a distance: If it were smaller, it simply would have been unable to stay within Arcanis' gravity and fly out into space. Furthermore, we know that it cannot be small because--despite its distance--it is still larger in the sky than Viridis which (as revealed in A2HP5 Vexing Priests) is small enough to pass in front of Viridis and form what looks like an eye, implying it is smaller in the sky despite being closer. This suggests to me that Viridis isn't so much of a moon, but a (likely smaller) PLANET in its own right. Double planet systems are not unknown: Hell, technically Earth and the Moon are a double-planet system as the orbital barycenter is not located at Earth's core, but actually only about 1,700 km below the surface of the Earth (whose radius is ~6,350 km).

This could also explain how Viridis is a "Green Moon". Most stellar bodies in our system are the colour they are based on the makeup of the rocks on them. Often, this means shades of black, grey, and white. When you come across a stellar body which has a different colour (like, say, red or green), this implies some sort of chemical action upon its soil, which suggests that there is (or was) some sort of atmosphere. For example, Mars is red because its soil (regolith) contains large amounts of iron oxides, which only happens when the soil is exposed to oxygen. This means that the surface had to have been in contact with LARGE mounts of oxygen at some point in its past, implying either an oxygen rich atmosphere, or liquid water (which also implies a level of atmosphere). For Viridis, if it is a lifeless body, to get a green colour would imply large amounts of oxidized copper in its soil, implying the same presence of oxygen.

An alternative to this is that the Green moon isn't simply a green, lifeless body, but a LIVING PLANET with foliage and water to give it that colour. This is a fairly mindblowing realization to me, as it brings some interesting things up about the 'worlds' of Arcanis. For example, according to the Elorii stories about the God's War, the Pantheon knew that the Other/Umor wasn't on the Green Moon when the Elemental Lords because they had "[sic] already looked there." Could the Green Moon be the true origin of the humans? Could this be the fabled 'Eastern Continent?'

This theory could be further supported by the other moon in Arcanis' sky: Aperio. This is the Dark Moon, implying that it is made of a material which has a low albedo (meaning, it doesn't reflect light well), which makes sense for a normal stellar body as they tend to be made of rock of black to white in colour. As there is a known lunar cycle for Aperio, it does suggest that that 1) it is also tidally locked, and 2) that it isn't so much 'black' as 'darker than the green moon' because otherwise it would be near-impossible to see at night. This moon has a very interesting history in the world because we have it from many sources (such as "To Reap the Whirlwind" from Year of Ill Harvest) that this moon simply did not exist prior to the coming of the Pantheon of Man and the humans to Arcanis during the God's War. From the same source (the Codex Arcanis) were we know that the Pantheon checked the Green Moon (in fact, the very next paragraph), that Aperio holds great significance to the Pantheon and the God's War in general. It was on that body (according to the Elorii) that Umor took Belisarda, and had a fortress against the Pantheon of Man and Elemental Lords.

Could Aperio be less of a moon, but some sort of ship or artificial construct? I have once heard a theory that Aperio was actually the 'floating city' from whence the True Kio came to Arcanis, which is a very interesting interpretation. It could also have been something of a 'bridge' to allow The Other/Umor and his followers to escape the homeland of the Pantheon/humanity which may have been used by the rest of the Pantheon to reach Arcanis itself. Another theory is that the Dark Moon continues to be the prison used by the Pantheon to trap their foe away, which doesn't necessarily call the 'ship' theory into despite.

Either way, the presence of Aperio does seem to have had quite a few effects upon the world of Arcanis. For one, prior to its coming, we did not have any references to western end of what is now the Blessed Lands being a Flood Plain. Currently, for at least a portion of each year the western third or so of the Blessed Lands--from Pescinium to the First City--is inundated from the Sea of Lanterns so that you can actually said all the way to Mount Dagha, upon which the First City is built. This suggests that this crazy tidal plain didn't exist with only the Green Moon, which possibly didn't have much effect due to its distance. Furthermore, from LA-SP3-04 "Wrong Turn at Coryan" we know that during the Empire of Yahssremore, the coastlines of Onara were noticably different than current day, but it is unknown if that is because of the tidal shift of gaining a new moon or because of the formation of the Gulf of Yarris at the end of the Il'Huan War.

Anyway, I shall leave my musings here and allow others to comment (this has nothing to do with the fact I'm hungry and need to make supper). Have fun!


Apologies: I made a math good. Orbital period would be less about distance from planet to moon (or, barycenter to moon) and more about CIRCUMFERENCE. This is C=πD. For an orbital period of 3.25x that of the Aperio, the you are looking 3.25=πD, where D=3.25/π=1.05 units. Aperio word be D=1/π=0.32 units. Ultimately it means the same thing unless I screwed it up again, but at least this way I am a bit more geometrically correct.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Last edited by Nierite on Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:37 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Addendum: I forgot to mention the other calendar that we have seen in fiction, specifically that of the Blessed Lands. Thus far, we have seen five separate dates in three separate months: The Sun, The Flame, and The Lady. These are obviously references to Illiir, Nier, and Larissa, which matches the theme (if not the exact details) of the Coryani calendar which could explain the genesis of the more well-known calendar. Beyond the names of these three months, we know that at least one of these months (The Sun) has at least 30 days (as seen in "What Lies Beneath"), which is longer than the Coryani months AND does not match the period of Aperio. This suggests that the First Imperium calendar does not follow the Aperio Lunar cycle. In fact, assuming the days of The Sun represent the end of the month, and that it is typical of other months in that calendar, the months are more in line with the cycles of Viridis (Viridis' cycle is 91 days, so that is 3x30 months, plus a single day). This would leave us with 12x30 days months (one for each of the Gods, without one for the Emperor like in Coryan), plus 4 days to make up the year. These could be religious holidays outside of the calendar, or four months have 31 days.

From my scans of the relevant A2: The Coming of the Destroyer mods released thus far, we do not have any direct references as to which days correspond to what dates on the Coryani calender, but presumably the two share some things in common. For example, let us assume that the three named months (The Sun, The Flame, The Lady) are consecutive months, and that all three of them have 30 to 31 days. Let us also assume that the 1st of the Sun is close to Corscus 1 of the Coryani calender, which typically corresponds to the Vernal Equinox and Viridis being full. This means that the 1st of the Lady, also known as the Festival of Unavocce (From "Vexing Priests") falls somewhere between Libidine 3 and Libidine 6 of the Coryani Calendar. Libidine is the month associated with Larissa, and would be some 2/3 of the way between the Vernal Equinox and the Summer Solstice. While having The Sun and The Lady correspond with Corscus and Libidine might suggest a direct conversion, we know that The Flame comes between those two months, which would suggest that Nier's month falls in place of Saluwe's month (Lampyris) on the Coryani calendar. In Coryan, Nier's month (Dirigo) falls two months after Larissa's (with Althares month, Doctus, between them), which throws that into doubt.

And that doesn't even talk about why the First Imperium would be more fixated on Viridis over Aperio. . .

Anyway, a brief aside for a little more food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:11 am 
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As a small note I am not convinced that the Lady has to be Larissa (instead of Saluwe ... or even Anshar or Beltine). Otherwise I agree with your interpretation of the naming conventions. I find it irritating that I have to guess what season the modules are set in without a way to look them up for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:51 am 
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Posting from my phone, so unfortunately I will have to keep this short. In relation to the orbital distance of Viridis, keep in mind that gravity is based on the sum of two body's masses. You seem to have assumed that Arcanis is of a similar size to Earth. By no means is this a bad assumption, but keep in mind that Kepler has located rocky planets several times larger than Earth in other solar systems. I'm afraid that I don't remember the calculation for gravity off the top of my head, but I believe I would be close to say that a planet four times the size of Earth could keep a gravitational lock on a satellite the size of the moon at double the distance of our moon...more or less.

With that said, I love the thought that Viridis is another living planet...very interesting idea.

The module back in 3.5 where you went through the strange portal and ended up in the jungle with those psionic halflings...was there ever a confirmation that we were on Arcanis? I don't remember the module well enough. I'm wondering now if it is possible that we were sent to Viridis instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:44 pm 
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Ultimately, until Henry gives us some info or art is made meeting Henry's description, we will never know just how big, small, or even far away Aperio and Viridis really are. My post is based on so many assumptions that I am worried that I'll have my degrees taken away because of how scientific the theories really are :P

As to how gravity works, the basic principle is that every time you double the distance from an object, you half the force of gravity. This means--assuming that Viridis is the size of the moon and moves at the same orbital period--that the force of Arcanis' gravity on Viridis is only 11% that of Earths on the Moon. In order for the forces to balance out, the Viridis has to mass some 12% that of Arcanis (as opposed to the 1.2% mass that is the Moon to the Earth). This means that Viridis would be a little bit bigger (in terms of mass) than MARS (which is about 10.7% the mass of Earth). Hell, it could even have a higher gravity than Mars (which is about 38% that of Earth) if the planet is more dense. After all, Mercury has a mass only 5.5% that of Earth, but has a surface gravity identical to mars which is not quite twice the size. If Viridis has the same density as Earth (which, if it were a double planet made at the same time from the same material, it could be) its surface gravity would be higher as Earth is (on average) 40% MORE dense than Mars.

Addendum: Assuming that all the above assumptions are correct, and that Viridis has a density of 5.5 g/cm3 (slighly lower than Earth), it would mean that it has a radius of around 3145 km (decimals removed due to made-up-ness) which is slightly less than Mars and a surface gravity of around 49% that of Earth/Arcanis, which is about 10% greater than Mars. Yay completely arbitrary number science!

Addendum addendum (the Revengening): Using the same completely arbitrary numbers, Viridis would be about 58% the size of our moon in the sky (assuming it is 3.1x the distance away, and 1.8x the total diameter). For this to look like an eye (as seen in Vexing Priest), Aperio would have to smaller than this while maintaining an orbital period of only 95% that of the Moon. As such, Aperio has to be between 30% and 50% the size of our own Moon if all these things are true, which would mean it has a radius between that of Ariel and Titania (moons of Uranus) .

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:02 am 
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Nice write-up, Cody. I have some additional fodder and a correction.

Cody's claim that a tidally locked body's period of revolution is based on its distance from the parent body is, I think, incorrect. It's been a few years since I studied orbital mechanics and planetary physics, but I don't think Cody understands it correctly. If properly motivated, I could get out my books and confirm or deny it.

The green moon, Viridis, traditionally represents the Paradise of the Gods. Viridis emits an eerie silver-green light. Within the dogma of the Mother Church, it is a visible paradise. Viridis is full only four times a year, when the Blessed Lands are filled from the Flood Plain due to the great pull on the tides, marking the year and festivals, which are bright times of celebration. Viridis is positive and associated with the ore Viridiite.

The black moon, Aperio, is a Door of Initiation and that which is revealed. The Black Moon is associated with the dark gods (Neroth, Cadic, and sometimes Sarish); also with black magic, secrets, and mystery cults. Aperio is negative and assocaited with the ore Aperiite.
I don't see why Aperio couldn't, in theory, be totally black. Its presence could be detected at night by the stars (and moon) that it blocks, and an ancient culture would have many more stars visible at night than modern light-polluted skies near 21st century cities. Aperio would also be visible clearly in the day, and any moon is out half the time in the day anyway (albeit more often close to new when present during the day thus not as visible).
The first appearance of Aperio seems to roughly coincide with when the Godswar came to Onara, and it could be that the Flood Plain in the western Blessed Lands was created when the Pantheon of Men was fighting the Other.

There has also been multiple mention of shooting stars leaving meteorites made of interesting ores on Onara.

Scott Charlton has written material for Arcanis detailing six planets visible in the sky and 12 signs of the zodiac, though I don't know whether these are official.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:17 am 
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I gladly profess my incomplete understanding of astrophysics and astrography, so I would not be surprised if my assumptions and math are completely wrong. I have generally always been good at math and science (hence my current profession), but for some reason Physics after High School has always been my bane ;)

As to the Flood Plain being related to Viridis and not Aperio (or some combination of both), my only gripe against it is that I couldn't find any references to the Flood Plain existing prior to the coming of Man. All references to the Blessed Lands before that time is that of a verdant, fertile plain with no reference to waters of the west except for a Ssethric reference that there was a body of water there (in regards to the Saam Ur Cyclopses, IIRC). This means that 1) I'm missing a reference to previous floods, 2) The flooding is related to Aperio, or 3) Something in the God's War 'made' the Flood Plain.

My personal view on the subject is that the Flood Plain floods when Aperio and Viridis are at their combined closest approaches (both at perigree) which exerts more force than any single moon could on its own.

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