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Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
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Author:  PCIHenry [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Hello everyone,

We're starting to do the preliminary work on converting the Grand Tome of Adversaries to the Second Edition ruleset. We're planning on expanding the book from 224 pages to 256 so that it matches the Core Rule Book, which means we need to add a few more Adversaries.

So, we want to know what you think. Are there any monsters in particular that we missed the first time around that you'd like to see developed and included in this edition.

Let us know!
Author:  Nierite [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Don't have my copy handy to see what you've done, but maybe peruse this?:

http://www.native-languages.org/chippewa-legends.htm
Author:  Blusponge [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Hmmm...surprised by the lack of response here. I would have thought that any GM or WHR would have jumped on this one by now.

Anyway, excellent news! Henry, I have a whole laundry list of stuff I'd love to see in a new GToA that have nothing to do with monsters. If you'd like, I'll be happy to fill up every spare page for you. But I'll stick to your question here.

I'd like to see more critters from Africa and the Middle East! The dark continent is a staple of the genre, and with the war between Hapsburg Austria and the Ottomans being such a major part of the era – not to mention proximity to Transylvania – I think both deserves more attention. Really, for the middle east, you'll get the most mileage out of the Jinn (a strain of Faeries?) and Ghouls (a far different beastie from the Revenant Ghul in the core book – more of a corrupted jinn, or perhaps a strain of rawheads).

It would be cool to see some treatment the legends from the Indian subcontinent (asuras, rakshasas, daiking, bhutas, pretas, etc.). India just has so many cool legends. Most of these could be added as strains.

Don't leave out the minions!

Beyond monsters and adversaries, I'd really like to see some expansion on the concept of the Hellpoint. Maybe a couple of short examples, or a series of hooks, prompts, or tags I can use for creating my own. I'm a sucker for random tables.

But, like I said, that's just a fraction of my wish list. :)

Tom
Author:  PCIHenry [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Hello,

@Cody - Thank you for the resource, but I was looking more for specific creatures that might have been missed.

@Tom - Please don't be shy - fire away.

But as for the creatures you stated, I agree that the mythology of the world is rich and varied, but I prefer to keep this book in the European/New World vein, though a threat secion included in a sourcebook detailing Africa or India would be amazing.

I'll see if adding a taste of these far flung creatures in the GToA is possible.
Author:  Blusponge [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
PCIHenry wrote:
But as for the creatures you stated, I agree that the mythology of the world is rich and varied, but I prefer to keep this book in the European/New World vein, though a threat secion included in a sourcebook detailing Africa or India would be amazing.


That's why I suggested adding them as Strains. That's a pretty small footprint, even with the stat-block. Though with all their variations, the jinn could practically be their own entry. You get a LOT of mileage out of the jinn in middle eastern lore. I understand wanting to keep things focused on the OW/NW, but with the way fault lines work now, you've kind of opened things up to quick sojourns to very distant parts of the world and it would be nice if the monster book helped support that a bit more – IMNSHO anyway. :)

Tom
Author:  Blusponge [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
PCIHenry wrote:
@Tom - Please don't be shy - fire away.


Alright. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Hellpoints: what are they? What do they look like? What is the effect on the surrounding environment? 
How do WHers deal with them? Defenses? Offenses? Mutations?
Secret History of the World: how does it all fit together?
Host of Hell: who rules hell? Heirarchies? How do all the daemons and devils interrelate?
Demonic agendas? Aside from opening gateways to hell, bringing about the apocalypse and those cliches.
Fault Lines/Invisible World: expand on the core
Dark Secrets of the Orders: ripped from Orders of Solomon; stuff the players should never know!
Forbidden society cell examples (what does an average dark coven cell in generic location x look like? Inked Palm?) more useful than a single featured villain; might even include a handful of agendas in vague locations that the GM can flesh out; plot hooks!
Hazards (falling, fire, poisons, disease, deathtraps, obstacles, etc.)
Exploration rules/guidelines ("so you want to find the fountain of youth? ::roll some dice:: No problem.")
----
Minions!!!!
African monsters/strains
Middle eastern monsters/strains (jinn, ghul)
India monsters/strains (asura, rakshasa, bhuta)
The grigori (watcher daemon) from Child's Game
Another Daemon (devil to daemon ratio is currently very skewed)
Seraphim (angels, the heavenly host)
----
More story abilities/prices: and how to use them for maximum effect
More themes: same
Monster building guidelines
Monster conversion guidelines
----
Appendices!!!!
Complied talent summaries (core+GT)
Ditto powers, prices, story abilities, themes
List of adversaries by category
Master index of adversaries (Core+GT)

Some of this stuff may sound really broad for a "monster" book, but consider that it makes the book almost indispensable to the WH GM. It takes a lot of dissperate elements that would have trouble finding a home elsewhere and puts them all at the fingertips of the GM for adventure/world building.

So there's my list.

Tom
Author:  T_Wolter [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
What Bluesponge said!

The workings of Hell points and the secret history (metaplot?) would be fantastic, as would be a descpription of the hierarchy of demons / fallen angels and their presence in the grave new world (or old world). An index containing powers, names and other main contents of the book is indeipensible, IMO.

Hinting at developments or threats from regions or areas not yet described would be nice, though I could understand that this might not fully fit into the concept of a threat / monster manual.
Author:  Blusponge [ Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Ooh. Metaplot is such an ugly word. ;) And not really what I mean by secret history of the world, though I can certainly see how it could be taken that way. So let me clarify that point.

By secret history, look no farther than the Solomon Kane story, Queen of the Dead. In it, we learn a vague shadow history involving the lost worlds of Atlantis and Mu and their impact on the world. Nothing too concrete, but enough grist for our imaginations to fill in the cracks.

So a secret history for WH, beyond what the core has already presented would be a more Adversary-centric view of the shadow history. How has the involvement of daemons, devils, nephilim, and other major players impacted history (think the Stone's Sympathy for the Devil). It doesn't have to cohesive or complete. But enough to give some cool things for GMs to build on (a lot like the fire of 1666).

So this could be anything from a bullet point sidebar to a 2-3 page survey of history from the Adversary's POV. But not a formal "metaplot".

Tom
Author:  PCIHenry [ Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
Hello,

I personally love Meta-plots. They add a great dimension to the game and if it's not to your liking, then you can easily ignore it. Sadly, no Meta-plot for Witch Hunter is being planned.

As to your suggestions, they have merit, but beyond the scope of the book with the exceptions of the charts. I don't see why we couldn't include that, though it may force dropping a monster or two for space considerations.

Hellpoints are items that I would definitely like to explore, and even though GToA isn't the place for it, I think I know a book where it would certainly fit nicely.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Author:  T_Wolter [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand Tome of Adversaries 2nd Edition
@Tom: thanks for clarifying! I agree, some sort of shadow history would be great and could possibly be hinted at in the adversary descriptions of the book. If that'd would be the case, I'd like the book give some more details on the fairy world or creatures / characters of European folklore (seelie / unseelie courts, Tuatha de Danaan, etc).

@Tom / Henry: Personally, I find nothing more intriguing and compelling to follow a game that has and evolving metaplot. That said, having worked in the RPG industry as a freelancer for some years I know how difficult it is to plan, develop and execute a metaplot spanning across several ( if not all) products. With a game universe as rich as Witch Hunter, however, I could see numerous plotlines, ranging from political developments to storylines focusing on the relationship between Orders, or the rise (and hopefully defeat) of a major new (or old) adversary and the price that comes with his defeat.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, I'm looking forward to the revised tome of adversaries and new content added!

best,

Tobias
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