James,

The Add On here is representative of inherited homes or granted lands that are far beyond the resources your characters have. I sincerely doubt that anyone has a few hundred thousand Imperials lying around to purchase a villa on the Corvus River.

But you bring up a good point. I suppose that it would be fairer to just not offer land purchases in game.

I don't think it needs to be all or nothing, Henry. I think there is a lot of room to make the two distinct and have the Add-On be worth its value to the purchasers, but also allow eventual in-game land ownership of some type.

Perhaps more clarity around the general 'value' of both the Noble and Citizen versions of the Add-On would be in GP. That might help sway some folks (including me). I made the assumption on the Add-On that the character needs the "Noble" background (or equivalent) or be a Val to take the Noble option, otherwise you get the "Citizen" version. If that's the case, perhaps it could be 2 separate add-ons depending upon which version your character can have?

If it's just more of a personal preference, that's a good thing to mention also. My character comes from a family that was struggling after some shadowy influences sabotaged their influence and power in Altheria. It would be cool to have some property that I am trying to 'reclaim' or rebuild in the family's name so to speak, and one day it could become larger (though of course having no income effect as stated).

Just some thoughts.

John

Henry, I have to agree with John that 'all or nothing' is a bad idea. It's one thing to offer exclusives / specials that would otherwise never be available in the Shared Campaign (Tultipetan dwarf, an exceptional Ss'ressen mount, named NPCs as PCs, etc), but I think it would be wrong to make something players have been asking for a Kickstarter exclusive.

The Kickstarter bonuses should be amazeballs - make the land something opulent. A mansion, a winery, said villa. As it's described right now, the land grant is for "a modest piece of property".

James,

the property has to make sense to the character. How could a former slave have a Manor house in Milandir, etc. Sure, we could make large leaps of logic and create a story that would account for that, but a modest farm or even tenement apartment that is wholly owned is no small feat.

The problem we've had in letting players buy property is that they are very expensive and you guys just don't have the money to do so. I don't think there's any player out there with a few thousand (as in tens of thousands) gold coins, is there?

This is not like the old LA campaign where gold fell into the player's hands at a ridiculous rate. The game environment should be/is more realistic.

Hi Henry,

Can you comment on how land ownership inside Enclaves works for Dwarves? Can you 'own' a part of the enclave, or is the land owned communally?

I think the land is a GREAT add on Henry.

@james, I agree with Henry here the land we are talking about would NEVER be realistally affordable by characters, the kinds of land we are talking about are family plots and things that no one should be able to afford.

Characters having too much money is something to not address as part of the kickstarter.

I think listing a GP equivalent for both noble and otherwise will help people gain a better idea of what types of things they can have.

John

John - I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. I mean for this to be something open to customization for different players. I feel that putting a hard value on it will cause people to, either consciously or subconsciously, feel that they must get something that meets that value.

Akira - Dwarves don't live in a communal society; they own property just like anyone else. So for Nol Dappa, you can have a "normal" home, a spire (a home cut into the inside of a stalagmite or stalactite), or anything else you may have in mind,within reason.

Henry
That makes sense. I just meant as a 'guideline' when folks are thinking about what they wanted. But if you feel that it would curtail creativity, then I'd avoid it as well.

Also, as per a previous question, does a character need to have the "noble" (or equivalent) background to take the Noble option?

I never suggested otherwise, guys. I suggested there is a disconnect between what Henry is describing here and what is described on the Kickstarter. The Kickstarter says "modest piece of property", Henry is saying here the land is something that costs tens of thousands in gold. I'm not really interested in actual value being listed and I think it's cool that the Kickstarter land would play into the character's background / back story.

What I'm saying is that it is incredibly bad practice to restrict something players have been asking for since before Origins '13 to only those people willing and able to shell out $100. As I said, I think it's totally fine to allow people to pay for opportunities that would not otherwise be possible.

To say that PCs wouldn't be able to afford land/houses without the special Kickstarter cert just isn't realistic. If we apply realism, as Henry suggests: As elite soldiers in the Crusade we were paid 5Gc for 2 years work - that's not including the 'earn-a-living' rolls at the end of each module. If I were to take 2 years salary, assuming all other expenses were covered as in the game, I could buy a house. Not an amazing house, but a decent enough house.

That all said, if all of the Kickstarter bits of land have to fit the PC's background, I'm out anyway. As an Expert / Former Slave, based on what Henry said, I'd barely rate a hovel.