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  • #151777
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    How exactly does the +1 wound granted by the Anshar-specific buff work? I can see two possible interpretations:

  • It effectively raises your passive Vigor by 1 (so you gain a wound in all regards – eg 4/4 wounds becomes 5/5). This would mean that taking a wound would result in -1 penalty even though it is a “fake” wound. The big question is what happens when Benediction runs out if you did take a wound? Do your current and max wounds both go down by 1 or does your wound damage “heal” when the “fake” wound goes away?[/*:m]
  • It gives you 1 extra current wound (without raising the max – eg 4/4 wounds becomes 5/4). This would both remove a wound penalty if you have one or give you a buffer before suffering a wound penalty (depending on if you already had any wound damage). Again, the question is what happens when Benediction ends if you took a wound while it was up? Would your 4/4 (1 wound) stay at 4/4 or would it drop to 3/4?[/*:m]
#267538
Anonymous
Inactive

How exactly does the +1 wound granted by the Anshar-specific buff work? I can see two possible interpretations:

  • It effectively raises your passive Vigor by 1 (so you gain a wound in all regards – eg 4/4 wounds becomes 5/5). This would mean that taking a wound would result in -1 penalty even though it is a “fake” wound. The big question is what happens when Benediction runs out if you did take a wound? Do your current and max wounds both go down by 1 or does your wound damage “heal” when the “fake” wound goes away?[/*:m]
  • It gives you 1 extra current wound (without raising the max – eg 4/4 wounds becomes 5/4). This would both remove a wound penalty if you have one or give you a buffer before suffering a wound penalty (depending on if you already had any wound damage). Again, the question is what happens when Benediction ends if you took a wound while it was up? Would your 4/4 (1 wound) stay at 4/4 or would it drop to 3/4?[/*:m]

    I would play it more like #1 personally as a GM. It basically increases your Wound Maximum to Passive Vigor +1 (Doesn’t change Passive Vigor though). You still suffer Wound penalties when you take your first Wound though. When the Benediction ends, you basically lose that Wound so any Wounds you’ve taken would not go against your normal Wound Maximum, which could vanquish you by Wounds.

    John

  • #267540
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    However you run it, I would think that you would have to run it so that it is useful and so it is parallel to the Belisarda benediction that gives stamina. To me, it seems best to run it as a phantom wound that has no penalties when taken.

    If it only temporarily raises your wound total, and you take a penalty for that wound during the scene, what happens at the end of the scene? If the temp wound and penalty go away (as I think John supported), then it is still a useful spell, but it raises the question of the priest being able to dismiss the spell as soon as you take wound damage to remove the penalty. But if you continue to carry the wound penalty, than how does the temporary wound the spell gave you help you in any way?

    I’m inclined to go with case #2. Isn’t that how people run the Belisrda benediction variant? You gain +5 stamina, and if you only lose 5 stamina during the scene, when the spell ends you are unhurt?

    #267541
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The weirdness with Belisarda is that generally all your Stamina damage goes away at the end of the combat, so usually you won’t suffer.

    Using #1 makes a lot of sense initially and sounds the easiest way to handle it. You get a ‘free Wound’ that when taken, effectively ‘ends the spell effects’ for you.

    However, using this interpretation means that the caster could end the spell after the recipient has taken the Wound and re-cast it, effectively given an unlimited number of Wounds.

    John

    #267542
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    However, using this interpretation means that the caster could end the spell after the recipient has taken the Wound and re-cast it, effectively given an unlimited number of Wounds.

    At the cost of a whole lot of casting during combat. It’s the same as saying that the Belisarda blessing essentially gives you unlimited stamina because everytime you get struck for 5 they recast it, which I think you would agree is inaccurate.

    Is the ability to give a phantom would powerful? Sure, especially in a BI where wound damage through a grind becomes a very big deal. But in most modules (rather than a BI) I think the bonus to hit or damage is usually more powerful, and I rarely see characters take the wound bonus blessing. In a BI it’s an entirely different thing, but considering how specialized it is, it seems OK for it to get it’s moment to shine. (assuming in the grind of a BI you actually ever even manage to cast scene duration buffs like benediction)

    #267545
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You don’t see the Stamina recast because honestly 5 Stamina is pretty small for most characters and isn’t going to make the difference between life and death. A free phantom Wound every fight (Let’s be honest, with the wording of #1, that’s what will happen), people are going to be taking a lot less Wounds. I would obviously love an official ruling but in the meantime, I as a GM would go with the wording of #2, and if the benediction ends and the character has taken all but 1 of their Wounds in Wound damage, they are at risk of being vanquished by wounds. However, there is a lot of time to get them healed in the meantime.

    John

    #267546
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I as a GM would go with the wording of #2, and if the benediction ends and the character has taken all but 1 of their Wounds in Wound damage, they are at risk of being vanquished by wounds. However, there is a lot of time to get them healed in the meantime.

    John

    But in that case, if it doesn’t prevent any amount of wound, what was the point of it in the first place? Makes that version of the benediction pretty worthless.

    Here is a smilies face, because of have an audience here that wants some. \":)\" \":mrgreen:\" \":idea:\" \":lol:\" \":)\"

    #267547
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You bring up a good point. So either it feels worthless (Though I would argue having an Extra Wound that you have time to heal or treat before it ends) or it has the potential to create unlimited Wounds.

    John

    #267551
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You bring up a good point. So either it feels worthless (Though I would argue having an Extra Wound that you have time to heal or treat before it ends) or it has the potential to create unlimited Wounds.

    John

    I think it only has the potential to create “unlimited wounds” if you have time to cast it a lot more than I usually see done. Of course, its also only an issue before tier III when priests start getting mend wounds to give everyone unlimited wounds, just like we all have unlimited stamina now because healing exists.

    #267553
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think it only has the potential to create “unlimited wounds” if you have time to cast it a lot more than I usually see done.
    I am also of the opinion that the intent of this spell was to grant a bonus to a hero’s maximum wounds, as opposed to granting a ‘free’ or ‘temporary’ wound. Considering how many wounds some BIs inflict and the fact that you can’t go below zero, the spell is useful this way without being broken.

    With a very short casting time/minimal strain it is an easy spell to spam at the start of a scene, especially if the benefit is (for all intents and purposes) unlimited wounds. It seems obvious to me that the health system in this game was intentionally designed so that Stamina could be easily restored, but Wounds much less so. Unless you are without a healer there are few groups who are overly concerned with stamina damage, but if a character starts getting low on Wounds a lot of players start sweating.

    This would be a good question for an official ruling, methinks…although as a judge I know how I would rule, in the absence of an official position.

    #267559
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I fall somewhere in between. On one hand, I think simply granting an additional max wound where any wound damage you receive sticks around (eg 4/4 base -> 5/5 benedicted -> 4/5 wounded -> 3/4 post-spell) when the spell ended is too underpowered. On the other hand, it definitely should not provide infinite wounds.

    #267561
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I personally like the concept of “Temporary Hit Points” for Wounds, mostly because it is ultimately such a niche spell. Only Ansharans can do it and you can only gain +1 Wound this way (Deity-specific benedictions cannot be adapted). Yes, you can keep pumping up this ‘shield’ on people, but to do so your Ansharan is going to find themselves out of the fight for a long time keeping this ‘shield’ up.

    That said, this does seem like a T2 spell in terms of power to me, so I can see and share the belief that it is inappropriate for Benedictions of the Gods (especially when you get Righteousness (Sp)).

    #267569
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I fall somewhere in between. On one hand, I think simply granting an additional max wound where any wound damage you receive sticks around (eg 4/4 base -> 5/5 benedicted -> 4/5 wounded -> 3/4 post-spell) when the spell ended is too underpowered. On the other hand, it definitely should not provide infinite wounds.

    As far as I can tell it only provides infinite wounds the same way healing provides infinite stamina – if you’ve got people standing around spending their valuable action to replace your resources while in combat. Just like healing, I think it seems very reasonable.

    #267570
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thinking more and looking at some stuff, I’ve gone back to liking the “temp hp” version. It’s the simplest version and, as others have said, it would require an Ansharan to spend most of the battle rebuffing to give “infinite” wounds. Righteousness is even less concerning than the base Benediction (it gives 10 strain so nobody will be casting it much).

    #267584
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So for those claiming the Ansharan would spend most of the fight casting this spell if it worked like a ‘phantom Wound’, here’s the reality as I would see it playing out.

    Before a Fight Scene (Where most GM’s allow pre-casting of a buff, etc): Ansharan casts +1 Wound on the whole party (Whoever wants that particular Benediction). Now, during a normal fight (outside of a BI) the likelihood of multiple characters taking wounds is pretty low (Especially at Tier 1 where this spell is available). The likelihood of multiple characters taking multiple wounds is almost non-existent from my experience. Usually 1 (maybe 2) person might take a Wound from massive damage or a lucky crit. With the “Phantom Wound” everyone leaves the fight unwounded when the spell wears off.

    If someone takes their ‘phantom Wound’, the Ansharan has to spend only 3 ticks to give them another Phantom Wound (4 if you count the 1 Strain). That’s basically the cost of moving your Pace. The odds of someone taking a 2nd Wound in a normal fight is very low (let alone more than 1 person taking a 2nd Wound), so the Ansharan has spent 4 ticks to provide phantom wounds to everyone (and in the case of the heavily damaged an extra).

    In the case of a BI, where healing, etc. are not always going to happen between encounters and Wounds are the currency of the day, a phantom wound every encounter is going to greatly affect table balance. I would challenge anyone to say that in a BI, if the Ansharan had a choice to grant someone another “Phantom Wound” after they took one for 3 (or 4) ticks, that it wouldn’t occur.

    Comparing this to other spells that heal Wounds on others:
    Resurgence (Tier 3): Restore a vanquished ally and heal 1 Wound – Speed 8 (4)
    Healing Waters (Tier 1): Heal 1 Wound (1 / day)
    Lay on Hands (Tier 4): Heal 1 Wound by sacrificing a Wound – Speed 3 (10)
    Mend Wounds (Tier 3): Heal 1 Wound – Speed 10 (4)

    Given that Anshar is about suffering, reading the spell as “You can now suffer *more* Wounds for your cause” (Option 2) seems more fitting than “You now are immune to Wounds” (Option 1) at a high level.

    Now a potential change to this spell could be that while under the Benediction, for Anshar, the target ignores the penalties for 1 Wound. It’s not quite the same but would alleviate the Phantom Wound of Option 1 and the “What happens when the spell ends dilemma” of Option 2.

    John

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