Makers of Award-winning Role Playing Games › Forums › Arcanis: The Shattered Empires › Arcanis: Rules & Rulings › Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
- This topic has 17 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 3 months ago by Anonymous.
- AuthorPosts
- June 5, 2015 at 3:11 am #151847AnonymousInactive
Finally about to reach T.II and spending my 1.10 advancements. Looking to finalise betwen LFSI: Provocateur Primus or something else.
There has been some discussion before on the old forums. Digging into the weapon tricks available to the Gladius, there really is a lack of them compared to the other swords.
Gladius gets three tiers of weapon trick (all the others, except scimitar get four)… and those three tricks are *all* it gets. There is nothing to gain by taking Adapt Weapon Trick (ta); the only way to broaden the base is Grand Master (pa) or the restricted list of the Fighting Styles (which has some internal clarity problems).
Its two contemporaries, the Broadsword and the Kio Sword both get Mighty Swing (Broadsword for being slightly heavier, Kio Sword for unknown reasons but does have the Quick quality, same as Gladius).
Suggestion:
Gladius be added to the weapon list for: Bypass the Shield, Mighty Swing and Pommel Strike. (Slashing Disarm is in the ballpark as well).
Tier IV trick: Mighty Swing.This makes my decision to follow the Fighting Style tiers easier, as I won’t need Grand Master to get Mighty Swing.
June 8, 2015 at 5:13 pm #268260AnonymousInactiveIn general weapons get 1 Weapon Trick / Tier maximum. Weapons have between 2 and 5 Tricks, but never more than 1 / Tier.
Here is a breakdown:
# of Weapons getting 2 Tricks: 11
# of Weapons getting 3 Tricks: 13
# of Weapons getting 4 Tricks: 21
# of Weapons getting 5 Tricks: 6Currently Gladius has:
Tier 1: Throw the Blade
Tier 2: Hamstring
Tier 3: Rapid StrikeIn order for it to have more tricks, they could be added to Tier 4 and Tier 5, but the Gladius can’t just be ‘added to’ the Weapon Tricks you’ve mentioned without taking up the Tier 4 and Tier 5 ‘slots’.
Hope this helps.
John
June 8, 2015 at 5:52 pm #268268AnonymousInactiveA Gladius is more akin to a short sword than a broad sword or a kio sword (it was primarily intended for quick stabs)…
The Gladius may “only” have 3 tricks (as John pointed out there are weapons with only 2) but I think it has enough going for it right now. It is the only weapon that qualifies for 5 different fighting styles (6 if you take Huge to wield it as light for Steel Dragon). I think the broadsword is next highest at 4 (5 if Huge). The Gladius also gets Hamstring earlier than most swords (Scimitar gets it at T1; Gladius and Bastard Sword get it at T2; the other 4 swords get it at T3 or T4).
June 8, 2015 at 11:41 pm #268285AnonymousInactiveI have yet to find a use for Hamstring.
By the time you want to use it, the bad guy has already run away. Using it earlier and nothing happens, as it expires on your next action.
June 9, 2015 at 4:10 am #268287AnonymousInactiveThere are several weapon tricks that I don’t see people using. It is the nature of the beast.
John
June 9, 2015 at 4:49 am #268288frootsnaxParticipantI see hamstring used occasionally … but you’re right. It’s not in the same league as mighty swing or twin throw or PBS which turn up continually. Like pommel strike its situationally useful.
Being really “good” with a gladius … at least at raw damage output … probably involves a fighting style or Grandmaster. But the weapon is hardly deficient as it is.
June 9, 2015 at 4:56 am #268289AnonymousInactiveActually, for Hamstring I’m starting to use it with Mighty Swing more often. After all, they move at half my pace until MY next turn, and the way Haakon goes he regularly makes 10-12 tick attacks
![\";)\"](\"{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif\" "\\"Wink\\"")
Make them See Butterflies
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Pr)
Speed (Recovery): +2(+3)
Range: Melee (1 target)
Effect: Weapon +5, if your attack roll also surpasses your Target’s Fortitude defence, their Pace is reduced by half until your next action.Combine this with Smite Heretic, activating my Avalanche Rune, and having Forward Stance for a 10 (+3) (+ strain) attack dealing lots of damage, after which they can’t escape you or your allies.
June 9, 2015 at 5:29 am #268291AnonymousInactiveAfter going through the weapons, there are 18 weapons that have Hamstring (6 aren’t listed on Pg 262, only the individual weapons).
(Errata note: Glaive is missing from all the Trick entries.)
After errata, only 1 trick doesn’t have a tiered slot (Spiked Chain has access to Snatch Object via Adapt Weapon Trick).
**
Since Gladius can’t get Mighty Swing (without GrandMaster at Tier 4), the best I could do is Sweeping Strike + Hamstring; still only a 6 tick window (unless I can trigger a Push action).Rapid Strike *might* get some use at T.III, but my table already has Celerity running sometimes, so I’m already a Speed 3 weapon.
Starting to realise why I see so few legionnaire builds; the mechanical investment needed for variety gets high compared to other nations. They might be the best heavy infantry, but if you exclude Martial Techniques, there are not many options.
I include the Pilum in that, as I rarely see a non-minion using a shield (everything either has TWF or a 2-handed weapon).June 9, 2015 at 2:34 pm #268298AnonymousInactiveSince Gladius can’t get Mighty Swing (without GrandMaster at Tier 4), the best I could do is Sweeping Strike + Hamstring; still only a 6 tick window (unless I can trigger a Push action).
Rapid Strike *might* get some use at T.III, but my table already has Celerity running sometimes, so I’m already a Speed 3 weapon.
To increase your time to attack (If that’s really a goal):
1) Take 2 Incidental Movements (+2 or +1 with Quick)
2) Activate a Rune (+1)Hamstring is nice if you’re trying to keep an enemy from moving past you to your squishier companions as well.
Don’t forget Celerity adds +2 Damage if you’re weapon is already Speed 3.
I look at my Steel Whip and wonder sometimes about the usefulness of the Tricks as well. I think many weapons could use some tweaking (which involves tweaking the tricks themselves in my opinion).
Long Strike is a useful trick, while bypass the shield and rapid strike don’t strike me as anything I would bother using. I am looking forward to Snatch Object, despite its lack of use as a ‘disarm’.
John
June 9, 2015 at 2:44 pm #268301AnonymousInactiveBecause Rapid Strike adds its speed of -1 directly, it can mean that your advanced maneuver may still be at the weapon’s base speed rather than +1 without the need to take an exceptional celerity rune. So a rapid strike + sweeping strike is a +0 (4) maneuver. On an exceptional gladius the recovery is conveniently the same as the weapon’s speed.
With a sweep of his hat,
Paul
June 9, 2015 at 6:34 pm #268315AnonymousInactiveBecause Rapid Strike adds its speed of -1 directly, it can mean that your advanced maneuver may still be at the weapon’s base speed rather than +1 without the need to take an exceptional celerity rune. So a rapid strike + sweeping strike is a +0 (4) maneuver. On an exceptional gladius the recovery is conveniently the same as the weapon’s speed.
With a sweep of his hat,
Paul
Is the -3 Damage / Target really worth the 1 Tick though is the question?
John
June 9, 2015 at 11:25 pm #268327AnonymousInactiveIs the -3 Damage / Target really worth the 1 Tick though is the question?
John
Not with my weapon speed already so low. I have much better combo’s planned with the same recovery (Sweeping + Unbalancing; follow up with TWF, followed up with Spinning Strike if any targets missed).
For slower weapons (greatsword, flamberge etc) with the bigger base damage (by T.3 combined with Vital Strike or a few other nasties), -3 damage is not noticeable. 2d12+(Mi)-3+(equipment/talents)
I do agree that some of the tricks needs to be cleaned up/tweaked to make them useful in their purpose (Hamstring needs a more reliable duration; such as 10 ticks, like Make them Bleed).
June 10, 2015 at 2:19 am #268342AnonymousInactiveIn general, I’m not sure but, as one example, here’s one:
Exceptional Fervidite Tail Bracer with Wolf Pack Tactics and d10 Strength:
3 ticks, d6+d10+3 damage = 3.5+5.5+3 / 3 = 12/3 = 4 dptSame doing a Mighty Swing:
4 ticks, d6+d10+8 damage = 3.5+5.5+8 / 4 = 17/4 = 4.25 dptSame doing a Rapid Mighty Swing:
3 ticks, d6+d10+5 damage = 3.5+5.5+5 / 3 = 14/3 = 4.67 dptFor the other end of the spectrum, let’s check Tralian Hammer:
6 ticks, d12+d10+3 damage = 6.5+5.5+3 / 6 = 15/6 = 2.5 dpt
7 ticks, d12+d10+8 damage = 6.5+5.5+8 / 7 = 20/7 = 2.85 dpt
6 ticks, d12+d10+5 damage = 6.5+5.5+5 / 6 = 17/6 = 2.88 dptIt seems like Rapid Strike actually is worth it (at least based on these two examples).
June 10, 2015 at 2:36 am #268343AnonymousInactiveRecovery needs to be part of the calculation (whether through using basic attack or another action).
Tail Bracer: (doesn’t get Rapid Strike)
basic 3 = 12/3 = 4 dpt
Mighty Swing 4(3) = 17/7 = 2.43 dpt /// Mighty Swing + basic attack = 17+12/7 = 4.14 dpt per cycle
Rapid Mighty Swing 3(5) = 14/8 = 1.75 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + 2 basic attacks = 14+12+12/9 = 4.22 dptTralian Hammer
Basic 6 = 15/6 = 2.5 dpt
Mighty Swing 7(3) = 20/10 = 2 dpt /// Mighty Swing + basic attack = 20+15/13 = 2.69 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing 6(5) = 17/11 = 1.54 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + basic attack = 17+15/12 = 2.66 dptThe slower speed 6 Tralian hammer does show a significant increase using Rapid Strike compared to the small increase of speed 3 tail bracer. Neither shows the effect of armour, of course.
The slower the weapon, the more Rapid Strike benefits in an Advanced Manoeuvre.
For efficiency, a Tralian Hammer Mighty Swing + Tail Bracer basic attack (to ride out the Recovery) gives the best ‘bang’. 17+12/10 = 2.9 dpt
***
For armour 5 (a commonish problem; inc Impact):
Basic Tail Bracer: 7/3 = 2.33 dpt
Mighty Swing Tail Bracer + basic: 12+7/7 = 2.74 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing 3(5) = 9/8 = 1.125 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + 2 basic attacks = 9+8+8/9 = 2.77 dptBasic Tralian Hammer: 11/6 = 1.83 dpt
Mighty swing Tralian Hammer + basic: 16+11/13 = 2.07 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing Tralian Hammer + basic: 13+11/12 = 2 dptSince Tralian Hammer and Tail Bracer doesn’t get the trick, this is all wrong anyway.
added tail brace back in. June 10, 2015 at 3:02 am #268346AnonymousInactiveActually, Tail Bracer does get Rapid Strike. Worn property lets you use Unarmed tricks with it as well as those specific to Tail Bracer. It does not get Mighty Swing though (I’ll be taking Grand Master in order to do that).
Tail Bracer Mighty Swing should be 17+12/7 = 4.18 dpt
An increase of 4.18 to 4.22 isn’t much but it is a little something. I agree that slower weapons benefit much more from Rapid Strike but even fast weapons do get a benefit.
- AuthorPosts
- The forum ‘Arcanis: Rules & Rulings’ is closed to new topics and replies.