Advanced Spells (one topic)

if your argument is:

“I think this should be available at 1.1 at a reasonable cast rate” i think you are the only one that feels that way

I’m not saying auto-cast. I’m saying around CTN 21 with no adaptations which means around CTN 24 for 1 adaptation (won’t auto-cast until well into T2).

I still strongly feel that we should not be massively limiting advanced spell availability (which CTN 24 does). If advanced spells need more limits, expand on those (like slowing them down again (eg original speed rule instead of new proposed rule)) rather than making them unusable. Advanced spells are the most interesting and unique part of the Arcanis magic system.

Maybe it’s just me but I still massively disagree with making T1+T1 pretty much unusable until late T1 (and T1+T1+adaptation pretty much unusable until T2). Advanced spells are one of the most interesting aspects of Arcanis magic and should be possible at 1.1 (certainly not auto-cast but reasonably possible). Highest+6 and sum-12 both make T1+T1 around CTN 24 (unusable until late T1).

Actually, there are 2 proposals on the table. The first being CTN + CTN -12. The second is to change Metaphysical? Understanding to reduce the CTN total of an advanced spell by 2. This puts the CTN at 22 for T1, a totally doable passive CTN early in Tier 1.

That being said, characters starting now (at 1.5) can start casting Advanced Spells with their passive on the first game. Will dabblers be able to do it? No, but then for Advanced spells, they shouldn’t be able to. Advanced spells are for advanced casters who focus on theory and proctice of magic.

This makes if available to all who want it, but real hard if you don’t work for it, which seems to be the goal. Achievable but still special.

Any change to Advanced Spells is going to require someone to rebuild a character concept. The current situation has to change with the amount of auto-cast advanced spells being used compared to adapted spells.

CTN+6 and the MetaPhysical Understanding change is a workable long-term compromise.

Even CTN 21 means no starting caster can auto-cast or cast willy-nilly (if my off-the-cuff math is right, 4 ranks Arcanum and Prodigy would have <50% chance to hit a 21). CTN 22 delays that a little longer (and requires 2 talents to get asap). CTN 22 can auto-cast by late T1 whereas 24 isn't until mid-T2. As I've said, to me, the real utility (and interesting part) of Advanced Spells is adding adaptations which pushes the CTN up to ~25 for T1+T1+adapt (given base CTN 22).

You are correct that a 1.1 caster with +3 to Arcanum (let’s say +4 because of Prodigy) can’t autocast a CTN 21. In fact, assuming a 2d10+1d8+4, that is an average roll of 19.5. This means that at a CTN 21 there is a bit less than a 50% chance that they can make that roll right off the bat, which seems WAY to high for something that should require experience to do. Conversely, by the end of Tier I the caster most likely will roll 2d10+1d10+7 on their roll, which averages 23.5. In keeping with my “Advanced Spells should be a Late-Tier ability that I champion, I think the number should be CTN 24. This keeps it within reach of a 1.1 (I’ve made more than a few CTN 24’s in the early game), but isn’t something they get automatically or with minimal effort. Let’s face it, CTN 21 is just too low from a ‘continuing game’ perspective, and it means starting about 1.3 (hell, 1.2 people with Metaphysical Understanding) people will be able to autocast it. Being able to front-load cool stuff on 1st Level Characters (to use the more common analogy) gives nothing to build towards, and makes the ‘later game’ a lot less special. I am a huge proponent for every boost to give something new, or have the potential to give something new.

guys,

out of the box casters should NOT be able to cast advanced spells willy nilly…

it should be something you work toward.

Pedro, nothing is being said about willy, nilly. Tier 1.1 casters would not be about to cast an advanced spell with passive unless they had both Metaphysical Understanding and Spell Affinity in one of the base spells, a primary casting stat of 8 or better, very limited choice of backgrounds, and would would have to be human, val or gnome. This is the same as people casting spells with 2 adaptions, and that is the bar you first set.

But, if you want to delay it, there is a way. (a couple actually) And thinking about it gave me a great idea. My favorite would be to make Metaphysical Understanding tiered, where the amount you reduce the final CTN to cast the spell and the bonus when attempting to counter or dismiss an Advanced spell is equal to the Tier of the talent.

This would make Advanced spells virtually impossible to cast at tier 1.1 and hard to cast till you got to your mid to high tier ranks. of tier 1. It grows and can continue to be an arcane character focus.

with ever increasing options,