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- This topic has 20 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 3 months ago by frootsnax.
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- February 26, 2014 at 4:37 am #257574AnonymousInactive
That’s how I’ve viewed it, good and useful, but not overpowered.
I agree there’s potential for the multi-target problem. I don’t think making it an Advanced Maneuver is the solution, as Arcane Strike synergies well with things like Lunge, Passing Strike, Unbalancing Attack, etc. which don’t really increase the ‘power’ of Arcane Strike. I don’t have a good suggestion (if any is needed) for combining it with other maneuvers, other than perhaps a special rule like “When combining Arcane Strike with a Base Maneuver that targets more than 1 target, apply a special +X Recovery and +Y Strain or something along those lines.
John
February 26, 2014 at 4:43 am #257575AnonymousInactiveJohn, I’m curious how your analysis changes when you add adaptations to spells. Arcane Strike states it must be a base spell, but nothing about adding adaptations. What about Delay Strain, Elemental Empowerment, Piercing Spell, or Rapid Spell. Also what about adaptation from the spells themselves. Elemental Bolt has a die bump adaptation, even a Tier 1 character can die bump it once being 1.10. How do these adaptations effect your numbers?
February 26, 2014 at 4:48 am #257576AnonymousInactiveJohn, I’m curious how your analysis changes when you add adaptations to spells. Arcane Strike states it must be a base spell, but nothing about adding adaptations. What about Delay Strain, Elemental Empowerment, Piercing Spell, or Rapid Spell. Also what about adaptation from the spells themselves. Elemental Bolt has a die bump adaptation, even a Tier 1 character can die bump it once being 1.10. How do these adaptations effect your numbers?For a straight damage spell the best you could do is a d12 plus Elemental Empowerment. Which if you could nail it on the right spell would be grant you a better damage bonus than Mighty Swing for +0 speed if John reads correctly, but you would gain strain instead. The maneuver itself negates the Piercing Spell Adaptation.
February 26, 2014 at 4:53 am #257577AnonymousInactiveJohn, I’m curious how your analysis changes when you add adaptations to spells. Arcane Strike states it must be a base spell, but nothing about adding adaptations. What about Delay Strain, Elemental Empowerment, Piercing Spell, or Rapid Spell. Also what about adaptation from the spells themselves. Elemental Bolt has a die bump adaptation, even a Tier 1 character can die bump it once being 1.10. How do these adaptations effect your numbers?
I see no problem with any of those. Their ‘power’ is already accounted by in the adaptation’s cost itself. If the adaptation is ‘cheap’ to use for the spell, then it makes sense to be cheap to use for the Arcane Strike.
The only ‘gotcha’ I see is where the Adaptations take the spell into “Demanding” (7 Ticks) speed and there could be a note in the Arcane Strike that only spells with a Casting Speed of 6 or less are allowed. Other than that, I see no particular problems. You’re just delivering the spell at melee range, against 1 target, and getting a small boost in damage (Weapon Die).
John
February 26, 2014 at 4:55 am #257578AnonymousInactiveJohn, I’m curious how your analysis changes when you add adaptations to spells. Arcane Strike states it must be a base spell, but nothing about adding adaptations. What about Delay Strain, Elemental Empowerment, Piercing Spell, or Rapid Spell. Also what about adaptation from the spells themselves. Elemental Bolt has a die bump adaptation, even a Tier 1 character can die bump it once being 1.10. How do these adaptations effect your numbers?For a straight damage spell the best you could do is a d12 plus Elemental Empowerment. Which if you could nail it on the right spell would be grant you a better damage bonus than Mighty Swing for +0 speed if John reads correctly, but you would gain strain instead. The maneuver itself negates the Piercing Spell Adaptation.
Considering the ‘cost’ of getting access to Arcane Strike is much greater than getting access to Mighty Swing, I still think that is a good tradeoff, if you’re adding that much potential Strain, etc. to boost the damage.
John
February 26, 2014 at 7:12 am #257586frootsnaxParticipantLike several players I share some concerns with Arcane Strike.
There are a number of combinations with control effects and multi attacking that seem like they would be devastating. Sweeping Strike, Whirlwind and Flowing Sands plus Arcane Strike (Enemy of my Enemy) will thoroughly futz the opposition. Arcane Strike (Force Push) plus Flowing Sands on a bridge is potentially a “win button” for some lucky encounter.
But at the same time Arcane Strike is hardly the only source of control effects in A:RPG.
Sweeping Strike, Whirlwind and Flowing Sands are also dominant with Shield Slam (Push everyone’s clock by 3 and prone) Edge of the Shield (Push 5! to everyone) or Juggernauts Hammer (like force, push kills everyone if unleashed on a bridge).
Against these other options I don’t see that Arcane Strike is that crazy. Also as John has noted, it is harder talent wise to get into Arcane Strike than to get to similar powers through Weapon Tricks.
I think the real problem we should think about are multi target Martial Techniques. In the old 3.x rules set multi targeting was less of an issue because:
(A) everyone already multi targeted as base attack went up. Thus multi targeting attacks were just an improvement of what PCs could already do. That is not the way A:RPG works with its clock. As a result multi targeting is relatively more powerful. And…
(B) melee characters only did damage so multi attacking with a weapon only scaled up damage spread out against multiple targets. Now melee characters have strong control options of their own.There are elements of multi attacking AND control with melee weapons that I love. Not least is the relative parity with spell casters. But its possible that we need to look at the higher level MTs and how they interact with control abilities from all sources. Not just Arcane Strike (ie. I think its possible that there is a problem but I don’t think the problem is just with Arcane Strike …).
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