ARG 2.0 – What would you like to see?

I keep meaning to post a separate thread with all my thoughts but I keep getting side tracked by real life. This is the summary version of my thoughts rather than the long form essay version. Even in “brevity mode” its going to be a long post.

(1) Attributes. Raw attribute scores don’t do much of anything other than generate two separate derived scores: your passive value which usually powers your defenses & the size of the die you roll when using that attribute. IMO it would be more elegant to just buy your passive values. 1=awful (d4). 2=a little bellow average (d6). 3=a little above average (d8). 4=stand out from the crowd (d10). 5=heroic levels (d12) & 6=human maximum (d12+2). This would muck with the advancement options “to raise a 2 attributes by 1” but I find the raw attribute scores to be kludgy and the progress of advancing attributes at 6, 9 & 10 (where you don’t get anything) idiosyncratic and frustrating. This would be the biggest change to the game on my list and I’m not sure it would be worth it … still the relative meaninglessness of actual attribute scores bugs me.

(2) I would prefer that race and perhaps background be more meaningful. It is my experience in many RPGs that differences are significant at creation but become marginal as you “go up in levels.” It would be neat if you got something at the start of each tier from your race such as a talent or a bonus to a (non combat/non arcane) skill. This could be the bloodline talents for vals and elorii. Ss’ressen & could get a biological or racial ability at each tier. Humans could go either combat or skill or Arcanum and get a talent of the right type each tier.

(3) Backgrounds. I agree with John and others who would like to see backgrounds that are somewhat more flexible (where you get a pick from a set of skills or talents). But I also want to continue to see specific backgrounds that represent a meaningful subgroup in the campaign. Former Soldier vs. Legionnaire is a good example. In my perfect world both could be used to represent military service in the Coryani Empire. Former Soldier would ideally be more flexible at creation, still potentially count for meeting prereqs like Centurion, but would probably have a weaker “total package” than Legionnaire.

(4) Archetypes: I see a lot of Martial and Expert characters. Despite seeing plenty of spell casters I don’t see a lot of Divine or Arcane Archetypes. IMO this is because of two factors (A) there is no spellcasting equivalent of a basic attack & (2) Its fairly easy to poach spellcasting as an expert … which also gives you the skill ranks to reliably hit opponents with melee or ranged attacks. There is also a possibility that (C) the skill advancements for Arcane & Divine are poorer than the options given to Experts and Martial characters. While spell casting is potentially a separate issue of game balance, I believe the game should either make it harder for experts to cast spells OR that the spell casting archetypes need a boost to help rebalance them.

(5) Damage: I agree that the game favors small fast weapons. Since I have never seen a game that didn’t have a few weapons that were more attractive than the others (in 3rd E D&D that would have been spike chains & tralian hammers) this doesn’t really bother me much. Whatever we do some options will be sexier than others. But I am not against simple ideas that address the issue. Hat’s idea that we add a static +1 to d6s, +2 to d8s, +3 to d10s & +4 to d12s would be fine be me. Tweaking weapon tricks would also help. For example make the weapon trick Mighty Swing solely the province of two handed weapons.

(6) Talents. Talents are not balanced against each other. Not sure if they need to be. But most of the “+1 to X” talents strike me as significantly underpowered choices. I think a static bonus that’s always on (for a non combat/non-arcane skill) might be raised to +2 as a baseline. In particular I think having a talent called “Master Craftsman” deserves something better than a meager +1 to your artisan rolls. That’s not very masterful. Something that is situational or only useable 1/scene might be raised to Daredevil’s level of +4. Weapon Mastery 1 is a clear exception to this.

(6 1/2) Talents (and Weapon Tricks & some spells) that use “weird” combat skills to operate are a pet peeve of mine. Blade Upon the Wind and Throw the Blade are primarily derived from having ranks in melee balanced. But both require you have “combat levels” of a different skill to use. I don’t ever see these abilities used. If they aren’t used why did we spend ink and space on them? I think its wonky when given powers from paths or tricks can’t be used. Similarly the spells Far Strike & Whirling Blade work with melee & ranged attacks despite the fact that the Arcane Archetype does not readily allow you to have enough ranks to do one or the other with a reasonable chance of hitting. (…yet one more reason to be an Expert who casts rather than an Arcane Archetype…). Basically I don’t think it should take contortions in how you choose your skills to utilize abilities gained from “standard” options. Many Bloodlines abilities that involve ranged attacks also fall into a similar trap and I think would be better served to have language closer to “roll to attack using Arcanum or ranged (Any).” Basically I think if you get an ability from “something,” I think you should be able to use it without having to go through build contortions just to use it.

(7) Horror. While I really loved the Horror rules in the Ravenloft & Masque of the Red Death settings where it is/was used to heighten drama. I think A:RPG is schizophrenic on the topic and it doesn’t work nearly as well. I think the basic idea is that if you are a hardened veteran of the Legions then blood and death doesn’t bother you…but freaky tentacle horrors and other deeply wrong crap “that has no business existing in civilization” makes you freak out and run. But the mechanics as written don’t play out that way. Mostly I find in practice that its a fate tax…because if really its important I don’t run away or go fetal then I’m just going to spend the Fate point. This doesn’t do anything to heighten drama. I think it would be better if (A) you couldn’t use fate on the roll & (B) there were more steps between “hey this is a little creepy, I’m at -2 to other Horror checks” (essentially nothing) and “Ruuunn!!! Run you damn fools!!!”(essentially I am defeated). It might be nice if players had the option to choose from various debilitating (but not crippling) effects. I also think provoking Horror might be useful to incorporate into monstrous traits. VO might have a built in horror check that triggers when anyone is unfortunate enough to get near one…

(8) Stacking. I would like the stacking rules to be simplified. I think the (5) categories for bonuses should be: Talent, Item, Magic, Ally (or maybe called Assistance) & Untyped. Untyped bonuses should be rare and would stack with themselves if they come from different sources. Weapon Mastery 1 is the poster child for an untyped bonus. (Tactical Edge might also be an untyped bonus.) Runes and Spells would be consolidated (Magic!). Bonuses from your talents would almost always be from talents. Bonuses from your ally’s talents would almost always be Ally/Assistance. I think you should still be able to get both static bonuses and extra dice bonuses in the same category. If it was appropriate, a talent could explicitly give a bonus that was something other than a “Talent” bonus. For example some bloodline talents might provide a magic bonus.

(9) Keep the clock even if it is a barrier to some D&D players from trying the game.

(10) Spells. There should be some base lines on what spells of each tier can do. For example damaging spells: I think it might be desirable for Tier 1 damaging spells to primarily be single target and expand through built in adaptations to range…and multiple target/small area effect at melee or close range (essentially arcs and small cones). Tier 2 damaging spells might expand into small area AoE at range and bigger AoE at close range. At present I find it odd that mental scream at Tier 1 is categorically better and more flexible than synaptic shock at Tier 3. I think those powers could almost be reversed. I also it find it odd that heat wave has an radius of 20′ (!) when something like Storm of Knives has a radius of 5′. Both at Tier 1. Generally I like the way current “utility/mobility” spells scale with level…I think there is less of a problem here.

(11) spell casting vs. pure fighting. Most systems favor spell casters, especially as one “levels up.” I know Hat and other are concerned about balance. IMO this system has done a superior job compared to D&D in most of its editions. However there are a few thoughts I have that would probably be helpful. (a) There should be a Martial Technique at each level that targets either fortitude or discipline (or one for each). (b) There should be a martial technique by Tier 2 that pushes an opponents clock regardless of what weapon you are using.

…okay. that’s enough for now. I don’t know that I’ve done justice to several of the above ideas, but it covers what I think could do with some tweaking.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t see this earlier so here goes. A MAP! Yep a map of the world showing the places referenced in the book. If we want to gain a wider audience we need to make sure that fundamental piece of information is front and center in any new edition. I’m sure it’s on Henry’s to do list but I felt it worth mentioning since one of the reviewers of the book on Amazon was pretty unhappy about the lack of a map. Case in point is the new 7th Sea Book. First thing you see when you open the book is a color map of Theah. Not too fancy and it does the trick. It’s also available online but for those who don’t go online a lot (and there are some ) having it with the book is really nice.

Just my two cents….

I get the map is forthcoming. But I guess to play the devil’s advocate I have to ask why one was not included in the original book? Maps are selling points. The Lord of the Rings just would not be the same without a map. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a fantasy RPG I’ve bought or looked at recently that did not have a map in the core rulebook, if that core book included world info like the ARG does. Remember the vast majority of players don’t use the forums and probably don’t know it exists. That was pretty clear at Origins (and those are the diehards not the casual players).

I guess my major point is we are spending a lot of time on mechanics and we should not forget the sort of things that catch people’s eye in the first place, like maps and art. Arcanis has some good versions of the latter. Can we assume that once that cool world map gets finally done that’s something we can put in ARG 2.0? Given the stiff competition for people’s time and money we can’t afford to leave anything out.

Below is the Amazon review that got me thinking about maps. I don’t care for the tone but unfortunately some of the observations are valid. Arcanis has always had issues with getting it’s presence noted in the wider gaming world. Hopefully we can do some things to change that. 5th ed might be a step in that direction. Time will tell.

https://www.amazon.com/Arcanis-World-Sh … ewpoints=0

Thanks Henry! I agree there are game mechanic issues we can improve. But all the great mechanics in the world won’t sell the game initially to a new user. Unfortunately it’s the eye candy that does that.

I’d also like to see a graphical plot and numerical analysis of the odds that result from the ARG system. With the d20 system’s d20 plus bonus, it’s pretty simple to consider that there’s a 5% chance of each number, uniform distribution, and it’s easy to do the math to calculate the possibility and probability of achieving a Difficulty Class number with a given bonus. With ARG’s 2d10 plus attribute die (that can explode) plus bonus, it’s not so intuitive to realize what the odds are of hitting any Target Number with a given attribute die and bonus.

I personally wrote a computer program to make charts for myself, and I could make such plots available to PCI as well. It’s interesting to see how the odds chance to realize when it is and isn’t worthwhile to consider doing something. Looking at that has helped me fully understand (not just a feel from playing but get the math) how the game system makes it practically (but not literally) impossible for low-bonus characters to hit high TNs (whether Defenses or other TNs).

Having a half-page in a book to help players get this could go a long way.

I’d like to see all the little story tweaks (some of which affect rules) that were included in the Arcanis 5e Campaign Setting book. For example, personal naming conventions in Salantis; religions for unden and kion cultures; and limits on what races can learn primal magic.