Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon

I agree that the Fire Dragon as part of the Pantheon is the same sect as the Milandisian Church (but not Mother Church).

John

So very wiggly …

Okay. Just what did Sabinius mean?

Did he mean “Hey you lizard men have been saying FD isn’t Nier forever and we politically need you so I’m dropping the whole issue and we accept whatever you’re doing cause we basically trust you not to be monsters or eat babies or something…and it’s not likely your souls share space with us in the Cauldron anyway. Let’s just say FD is part of the MIlandesian Orthodox Church, you’ll keep worshipping him and we won’t interfere, and we’ll all move on to fighting the Crusade.”

Or …

Did the Fat Coryani mean, “we’re all Milandesian brothers. Let’s set up temples and if humans want to pray to the FD that’s totally cool in my book. By the by if a Ss’ressen wants to worship Illiir or Beltine you should be cool with that too. FYI I am the last word on religious matters in Milandir too. The Fire Dragon is one temple of many,”

And now that he’s dead (Sabinius) how are people interpreting, reinterpreting and misinterpreting his words and intentions.

Having a LARP to hash this out might clarify a lot of this (or reveal interesting fault lines of conflict)…as well as announce who the heck is the next Primarch of Milandir.

BTW for purposes of judges worrying about Sects I think FD currently counts as MOC.

The question depends on how sect/church checks work in universe.

1) By becoming a part of a church or being born and raise with that’s church’s teaching you are somehow divinely blessed by the church and thus count as the same effect for spells.

2) Your actual belief is what makes you a part of a church. Believing in that church and/or teaching is what matters. In universe your faith attacks their faith.

Personally I don’t think they count yet, but there is no evidence to suggest they don’t. I personally would think that for the Divine spells to ‘count’ someone as your own faith, you have to truly BELIEVE that they are of the same faith as you. While the Ss’ressen have been part of Milandir for almost 300 years, they have remained separate and isolationist within Milandir for most of that time. While Milandesians may view the Fire Dragon as an allied deity, I really doubt that they would consider it an equal to–say–Illiir or Yarris or Saluwe’.

Similarly, the Black Talons have shown no real desire in story to be ‘part’ of the Human world. Sure, they send warriors to Duke val’Holryn and the King of Milandir (including serving as King’s Champion), but that seems more like them satisfying a treaty rather than truly attempting to merge themselves with their protector state. Also, remember that the Ssethric Inquisitors of the Black Talons are every bit as zealous at stamping out ‘inappropriate worship of the Fire Dragon’ as the Coryani Inquisition is in its mission. Adding all the outside influences (including adding the faith of Nier to its own canticle, smacking them of the traitorous Ashen Hides) would give them a far bigger existential crisis than Milandir would get in the situation.

If it does work, I think Milandesian humankin would be far more willing to accept the FD than the Ss’ressens are accepting the Pantheon, and I think the disparity would keep them from fully ‘being’ in the same church.

Males not only can become a Templar, but that is the only church path they are specifically ‘encouraged’ to join. Basically instead of being in the Clutch military, you are in the Church military. They just don’t encourage you to become MORE than a Templar.

Also of note: It was said that Male Ss’ressen CAN get Devout talents, including DSC, but they have to get it the hard way (just like Shamanism).

devin i disagree that those are the only two options, because they dont account for the political nature of the churches in arcanis, all churchs seem to be party to political machinations, sabinus, leola, the ardakene are all great examples of that
Could you go into more detail? Seems like this is covered in my faith vs yours.

@devin

I think the fire dragon is the best example of political religion, the Patriarch of the Mil Orth says hey this god is part of our church and it doesn’t matter what the common people believe, nor what the common sseth believe, they are now the same “sect” and they don’t smite each other.