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- July 11, 2018 at 2:09 am #152880AnonymousInactive
Most of us know about the val’Sungha, a Kio/Val mix, but this leads to a few interesting possibilities. What would a Undir/Val mix be like? We do know that Undir have had a lot of time to co-mingle with humans (and seeing as they have been enslaved for… undesirable uses) we know it is a possibility. Just a thought for now.
July 11, 2018 at 5:33 am #276504AnonymousInactiveThus far: they become vals. Only the kio (and the Brood of Ven through other means) seem to have broken the normal breeding rules of val.
November 11, 2018 at 3:57 am #276761AnonymousInactiveI believe the val’Baucisz were Undir, possibly before becoming Val?
November 11, 2018 at 6:49 am #276763frootsnaxParticipantNo. The val’Baucisz come from the “Harrn” flavor of humanity. They are not grey eyed Undir.
November 11, 2018 at 6:53 am #276764frootsnaxParticipantOn the wider question of Val & Undir cross breeding, I assume that the kids born are either Vals or Undir. As far as I know. It’s also just possible that the elemental influence of the Undir is incompatible with the Val lines and that the two “flavors” of humanity can’t produce kids…but TMK that’s never been stated anywhere.
November 11, 2018 at 7:49 am #276766AnonymousInactiveFrom “In the Shadow of the Devil”:
“val’Baucisz (val-Bow-seesh): A dwindling family of insane, sinister Undir Vals indigenous to southern Eppion, originally from the upper hill region of Annonica. It is not fully known where they came from before this, though some of the most elderly Undir say the val’Baucisz were in fact once cave dwelling pagan cannibals before they forcefully intermarried with other Undir tribes. These despotic nobles have a long, dark history and reputation among the peoples of the League, particularly with the Undir of Eppion.”
November 13, 2018 at 1:38 am #276773frootsnaxParticipantYes. That was true but it’s since been updated and supplanted. In the Kio book it’s pretty clear that the progenitors of the Val Baucisz drove the people who would become the Undir out of the area (more or less) around modern day Plexus. As they themselves were driven out by the Shadowmen (aka the Val Borda). All this happened in the Shadowef Ages and is poorly documented beyond legends.
If your PCs want to believe the Undir are the stock of the Val Baucisz that’s not unreasonable. Both groups emigrated across the waters into the West.
Most Undir would be horrified by the suggestion. The Val Baucisz are oppressors and boogeymen.
November 13, 2018 at 6:23 am #276775AnonymousInactiveI was curious as to timing as I haven’t read it recently. I had imagined some sort of shared common ancestry until the Baucisz family became Val and pushed their proto-Undir cousins out.
November 13, 2018 at 6:49 pm #276777AnonymousInactiveDo remember: The undir didn’t become elementally ‘blessed’ by the undine until AFTER they hit the Western Lands per the Kio Book. This means that before that they were (as far as the text suggests) standard humans. This means that genetically, the stock that gave rise to both the val’Baucisz AND the undir could be the same (cultural or religious difference, but phenotypically and genetically the same people?) which would mean that the original text isn’t wrong, merely incomplete.
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