experts

I played a lot with the Expert Archetype, and Tukufu derives from the Expert. I’ve developed strong opinions about them.

I agree with Josh that there are a lot of good skill talents to poach at creation. And of course your skill advancement rocks…the best of the 4 archetypes (both from the ability to advance whatever skills you want all three times & from the special pick two skills and instantly gain (2xTeir) in ranks option.

On the other hand I don’t think the Expert is an overpowered slam dunk either. Probably your armor proficiency isn’t great. And IMO you talent advancement is the worst of the four archetypes.

Consider: If you are a Martial character you get to take 2 combat talents (and 2 MT talents): These talents make you better at fighting and thrashing foes! If you are Arcane, you get 2 arcane talents. Congrats you just picked up a way to make your existing spells act like taffy as you adapt and modify them in ways others just can’t. But if you are an Expert then you are getting 2 skill talents. Skill talents are cool but generally* aren’t something that will define or improve the core of what your character does (especially if your core is something like melee combat, Arcane Spell Casting)

*Okay two exceptions are Leadership and Loyal Companion which can be upgraded by Tier … and rock. Otherwise most skill talents don’t really stack with each other. While “Quick” rocks, once you have it it doesn’t build with anything…like integrating your old Martial techniques with the new one you picked up.

Finally: And if you are a spell caster (like Tukufu) then one of your generic “pick 2 talents” has to go into Arcane (or Divine) Spell Casting. Leaving me just 1 talent per tier for things like bloodranks or continuing weapon Mastery … or anything else. On the other hand Tukufu attacks just fine with a weapon while his strain bleeds off. For that reason alone I prefer Expert to Arcane (and to a lesser extent Divine).

So you could be an Expert Awakened Scion, taking Prestidigitation as your Archetype Talent and then get all the Universal spells?

Part of the ignoring prerequisites is due to its positioning in character generation. I’d agree with Josh that delaying that (which I’m not sure you’re even allowed to do) to Step 9 would mean you’d have to meet the prerequisites.

John

Okay, so if I delay the talents until step 9, and have 3 ranks in any lore skill, then I can take Prest, and ASC and get all the universal spells as an expert?

Part of the ignoring prerequisites is due to its positioning in character generation. I’d agree with Josh that delaying that (which I’m not sure you’re even allowed to do) to Step 9 would mean you’d have to meet the prerequisites.

I remember this coming up on the old forums in the shaman discussions and again in the Learn Martial Technique discussions. Archetype talents must be chosen at the step they are gained.

Part of the ignoring prerequisites is due to its positioning in character generation. I’d agree with Josh that delaying that (which I’m not sure you’re even allowed to do) to Step 9 would mean you’d have to meet the prerequisites.

John
You can’t. The holding talents back part was a throwback to CSE rules that never came out.

Good call.

Hey folks —

I’ve read this thread multiple times, and I’m still missing the part where an Expert (or Martial) Awakened Scion gets the access to take Arcane Spell Casting [Limited]: Psionic.

(I know Expert makes it easier to fulfill the Prestidigitation and Arcanum skill requirements for ASC. I don’t care about the basic/advanced Universal spell mechanic which is now clear in the proposed errata. I’m just focusing on the fact that nothing I’ve seen allows you to break the [Limited] descriptor.)

Should Awakened Scion explicitly grant this access as a Special, the way Shaman Initiate does, and the way Initiate of the Gods does for DSC?

Is there something that I’m missing? A ruling from the defunct boards, perhaps?

Thanks!