Fixing the Martial Archtype

One thing to keep in mind is the Martial archetype is the only way to get 0 bulk on armor. So you can easily have AR 3 or 4 for a talent or even free with the right background.

Agreed. As I said above, Advanced Armor Training is huge. It allows you to have an Exceptional normally-bulk 2 armor as bulk 0. Even a Ssressen can’t get that high without being martial (Dragon Hide effectively gives you 1 bulk (-1 Avoidance) and Ssressen Scale Armor is bulk 1).

The penalty for bulk is -1 Avoidance, -5 Pace. 5 Gc Fine Celerity rune fixes the second problem. 1 point of Avoidance is nice. Better than yawn worthy but far from any sort of make or break. What am I missing here?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul
That it also applies to all might, prowess, and quickness rolls other than attack rolls. It is 1 only a -1 but it is on so many things it hurts. You can also get some benefit even if you don’t get bulk to 0 and don’t have to get exceptional armor yet and wait until later in the game.

I really notice the Shield Modifier of my Tower Shield when using skills outside attack rolls (as I have 0 net Bulk on my armour).

Armour users notice even 1 Bulk on their rolls over a long period (as long as the GM reminds them!)

I really notice the Shield Modifier of my Tower Shield when using skills outside attack rolls (as I have 0 net Bulk on my armour).

Armour users notice even 1 Bulk on their rolls over a long period (as long as the GM reminds them!)

Over a long period, sure the 1 point may make a difference. If it takes that long to notice though, how much of a real impact is it?

Unless performed in combat, a shield can simply be stowed removing the SM penalty (while climbing for example) and then ready the shield again.

Impacted skills:
Acrobatics – has an impact
Athletics – has an impact
Larceny – has an impact
Melee – no impact; combat roll or likely to be another attribute (like Logic)
Ranged – no impact; combat roll or likely to be another attribute (like Logic)
Ride – rarely if ever comes up as basic riding is TN 5 I think. Mounted combat is rare and very situational and if you’re using Ride to cause your mount to attack I would expect that falls under the combat roll.
Stealth – has an impact; whole group test though for make or fail typically

A 1 point adjustment on a 2d10 +d(Att) + modifier roll is hard to calculate in terms of % impact unlike a d20 roll where it’s a flat 5%.

For the skills described above, they aren’t called upon very often. If it takes many mods for their be enough rolls to notice an impact, then it doesn’t have much of an effect. Of the impacted skills above, Larceny is considered a specialist’s skill. Acrobatics is usually a replacement for Athletics or it’s an either or roll. As noted, with Stealth, the entire party succeeds or fails.

I’m not saying it’s a negligible benefit, it’s nice. If you gave a martial character the option for a spell of their choice as an ability in place of AAT, at a minimum I don’t think it’s a no brainer to keep AAT.

For those not familiar, my primary is a Martial. My arguments for improvements for them have been fairly modest, and I still think the best way to help determine balance is to look at situations that come up and how they are solved, then map that back to mechanics and archetypes. That way the discussion would be off a common set of assumptions and ground rules.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Using http://anydice.com/ its easy enough to find. (summarized output):

At TN#15, 2%. TN#20, 5%. TN#25, 7% and TN#30, 4%. Similar distribution but the lower TNs are fairly ‘automatic’.

So, about 1 in 20 rolls will notice the penalty for ‘low’ targets. The higher (25+) targets still require training to get even close.

Good find. So every 20 rolls on average for impacted skills if the adjusted target is 20 points above all other modifiers. Those 20 are then divided by the number of mods required to get that many rolls where you have an impact. My gut says on average you might see a failed roll because of bulk every 4 or 5 mods. That may be too frequent with the exception of a few mods. I could be way off as it’s just a guess.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I’ve been following this discussion with some interest. I have four primary characters, one from each archetype. I did this so I could compare each character to the other and see just how they play out as they advance. In general I am happy with my martial, Ursula. She contributed out of combat (even in social situations–although she’s not the “diplo-monkey” that our friend Dave is). Combat is where she shines with an AR5 she can take a fair amount of damage and with a Tralian Hammer and a Might of 7 (soon to be 8) she can dish it out. One area I have seen less use of surprisingly is the martial techniques and weapon tricks. They all add clock ticks, and with a base speed of 6 (Heirloom weapon), it just makes more sense to go with basic attacks and put all my effort into things that increase my chances to hit when it’s my turn. I do have Sweeping Strike which I use against minions, but I’m unsure about taking many more martial techniques. My clock spins enough as it is. Still that d10/d12 combo is useful to get through heavy AR. . As always I welcome advice on how to improve my character’s ability to contribute to success in a game.

Sometimes if the situation allows it I will combine Mighty Swing with Sweeping Strike which can lead to some nice damage. Not sure if I get anything that pushes somebody’s clock (at work with no book access ). For Ursula at 1.10 I’m going to take the Pit Fighter Path. It will give me another skill rank in Melee (Unbalanced) and Melee (Balanced or Unarmed), and Weapon Proficiency with the Gladius and Cestus. The only other Path of any interest at the moment is Seasoned Veteran which I’ll take in Tier 2. As for Martial Techniques I’m looking at Guarded Charge and Passing Strike at Tier 2.

Hmm I like that idea. A swift kick to the nether region is definitely something Ursula would try. I already have Pugilist and will take Iron Fists at Tier 2. Thanks!