How much damage can you do an how?

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  • March 13, 2015 at 7:52 pm #151680
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    A continuation of a thread (which had been mostly derailed) on the Campaign forums.

    http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1346&start=30

    At ArcaniCon there were several players who were able to throw out an AVERAGE of 30 damage every few ticks (4-6 ticks). How do you do it?

    For example:

    Haakon Marcus val’Virdan at T2.7 has a +9 to his attacks (8 ranks + Weapon Mastery T.1).
    Haakon has a d8 Might and a d10 Charisma.
    Haakon swings a d10 Flamberge with Impact (+d4 on Critical) and Mighty Swing (+5 damage as a +1(3)).
    Haakon has the val’Virdan Bloodline power the Sword of Heaven which gives him +3 fire damage.
    Haakon wields an Exceptional Quality Fervidite Flamberge (+2 damage) with an AVALANCHE Rune on it.
    Haakon has both Forward Stance and Smite Infidel T.1 (through Bloodline).
    Haakon can cast the Smite Heretic spell.

    This means that as his most damaging attack (including Crit) he would do d10(d8) WEAPON+d8(d10)SMITE WITH ADAPTATIONS+d6 AVALANCHE+5 MIGHTY SWING+3 BLOODLINE+2 EX. FERVIDITE+d4 IMPACT, for an average damage of 36 damage with an attack of 2d10(d10)+12, and a final speed cost of 9 with 3 recovery and 5 strain. He can only do this 1/scene, with all subsequent hits being less effective.

    Haakon’s ‘every day’ damage averages from 15 (d10(d8)+5) at a his lowest to 28 (d10(d8)+d8+10+d6) at his highest with strain and recovery.

    March 13, 2015 at 9:06 pm #266417
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Cody,

    Can you help me understand the d8 in both of your lines? I take the first line to be with the Smite Infidel talent. The T1 version grants d4(dCh) which in Haakon’s case would be d4(d10) not d8(d10). Also in that line, where does the d6 come from? You can’t get a damage die bonus from Smite Infident (ta) and stack it with Forward Stance (ta).

    In your second line you’ve got a d8 and d6. I’m guessing the d6 is from Forward stance at Tier II and also comes with a -2 to hit. Is the d8 the Smite Heretic spell with a CTN +4 die bump from d6 to d8?

    My request would be as people assemble numbers and dice, to call out specifically is granting each benefit in an equation.

    With a sweep of his hat,

    Paul

    March 13, 2015 at 9:24 pm #266418
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    According to the Errata, when you combine both the Smite Spell and Talent, all it does is die-bump the d4 from the talent, granting a d6. My understanding of the rules suggests that you should be able to further die-bump this static die using the Smite Heretic Spell’s adaptations, granting a d8 (actually, I can almost auto-cast a d10 if this is the case).

    I have an extra d6 from the Avalanche Rune (yes, I wrote Impact Rune for some reason. . . ) 1/scene. I did not factor Forward Stance into my ‘maximum possible damage’ calculation because of Smite Infidel.

    As such, things I can add to damage:

    d10 – Flamberge base damage, boost to d12 at Tier 3
    d8 – Might, will boost to d10 in Tier 3
    +2 – Fervidite, as per the errata on the material
    +3 Fire – The Sword of Heaven, granting the effects of a Legendary Fire Rune
    +5 – Mighty Swing, Tier 1 weapon trick for Flamberge
    d4/d6 – Forward Stance, with a -1 or -2 to attack (can do a d8 for a -3 at Tier 3)
    d6 – Avalanche Rune, d6 damage as a Trivial action to activate 1/scene
    d4 – Impact Quality, only available on Critical Hits
    d4(d10) – Smite Infidel, can be boosted to a d6(d10) if I cast Smite Heretic as part of the attack. My read is that it can be further boosted with adaptations.
    d6 – Base Smite Heretic damage, CTN+4 to die bump.

    I think that is all my possible modifiers to damage, except for things like Charge. . .

    March 13, 2015 at 10:04 pm #266420
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    At ArcaniCon, I came across a certain archer who (using sober reflection and math) I do not think was combining their weapon attacks properly.

    From what I recall, they were doing Unbalancing Attacks combined with Twin Arrow, to do an AVERAGE of 30+ damage every shot. On the face of it, this COULD be reasonable as:

    Longbow = d10
    Quickness = d10 (highly likely)
    Twin arrow = +d10 weapon damage
    Unbalancing Attack = +Pr (again, let’s assume a d10) on the next attack.
    Sniper’s Eye = +3 damage on ‘next’ attack.
    Exceptional Quality Bow = +1 damage

    This means that the shot would do (on paper) 2d10(d10)(d10)+4 damage, for an average of 26 damage. I am fuzzy on the timescales, but I don’t recall this being done any slower than every 10 ticks.

    Now, my read of the maneuver is such (upon time to think it out):

    Twin Arrow + Unbalancing Attack
    Category: Advanced
    Attack: Avoidance AND Discipline (Pr) (must bypass BOTH defences)
    Speed: Longbow (5) +1 (8 recovery) (total of 6(8))
    Range: (not relevant here, for this math)
    Effect: Weapon + d10 (weapon die)-3 damage, if your attack sucessfully hits the target’s avoidance and discipline, you will gain an additional +2 to attack and (Pr) damage on your next attack.

    I may be forgetting huge parts of this attack, but even with Sniper’s Eye (a ONE TIME +3 to attack and damage) I cannot see how this attack does more than 2d10(d10)-2 damage (avg 14.5 dmg) with the next one dealing d10(d10)(d10) damage (avg 16.5 damage). Would anyone care to enlighten me as to how this worked?

    March 13, 2015 at 10:08 pm #266421
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Here’s what I’m looking at as the best damage I can do from a character.

    Vincens
    Weapons:
    Exceptional Short Sword (+1 damage) – Fine Sanctified Cadic (+1 Damage), Fine Celerity (-1 Recover)
    Exceptional Fervidite Gladius (+1 damage) – Fine Sanctified Cadic (+1 Damage), Fine Venomous (+1d4 3/day)

    Maneuvers:
    Spinning Strikes
    Unbalancing Attack
    Combined: +1(6-1 Celerity Rune = 5)

    Talents:
    Wolf Pack Tactics
    Forward Stance

    Ok, with shortsword as the first attack and gladius as the second we have the following assuming there’s a flanking buddy:
    Tick 1 – Attack with short sword: To-hit: 2d10+d10(Pr)+8 (skill)+1 (Wolf Pack Tactics) +2 (Tactical Edge) -1 (Forward Stance) -2(Two-weapon fighting) =2d10+d10+8
    Damage: d6(d10)+1(Exceptional)+1(Rune)+1(Wolf Pack Tactics)+2 (Advanced Tactics) -3 (Unbalancing Attack) +1d4 (Forward Stance) = d6(d10)+2+d4, average damage: 13.5
    Tick 2 – Attack with gladius: To-hit: 2d10+d10(Pr) +8(skill) +1(Weapon Mastery)+1 (Wolf Pack Tactics) +2 (Tactical Edge) -1 (Forward Stance) -2(Two-weapon fighting)+2(Unbalancing Attack) = 2d10+d10 +11
    Damage: d8(d10)+1 (Exceptional) +1(Fervidite) +1(Rune) +1 (Wolf Pack Tactics) +5(Spinning Strikes)+d10(Prowess die)+d4(Forward Stance) +1d4 Venomous = d8(d10)+d10+d4 +d4 +9 = Avg. 29.5
    Go again on tick 8 with recovery 5. Assuming I take a normal attack and wait a tick, normal damage with say the gladius in between is:

    d8(d10)+d4(Forward stance)+1(Exceptional)+1(Fervidite)+1(Rune)+1(Wolf Pack Tactics) = 16.5 Average.

    Total damage over 13 ticks: 13.5 + 29.5 + 16.5 = 59.5 / 13 = 4.58 / tick

    There are also a number of things that have to happen including flank buddy for WPT & TE and the Venomous rune can only be used 3/day. Also, the opponents have to be intelligent non-worshipers of Cadic which can also decrease the damage. And with 3 attacks over that period, it means the AR is applied 3 times.

    With a sweep of his hat,

    Paul

    March 14, 2015 at 4:33 am #266424
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So many of these stacked things are 1/scene (or spells with strain), so after the damage spike it should taper off dramatically.

    I may be forgetting huge parts of this attack, but even with Sniper’s Eye (a ONE TIME +3 to attack and damage) I cannot see how this attack does more than 2d10(d10)-2 damage (avg 14.5 dmg) with the next one dealing d10(d10)(d10) damage (avg 16.5 damage). Would anyone care to enlighten me as to how this worked?

    I’d start by asking how they’re getting Sniper’s Eye off to start with; since it takes 60 ticks…

    Not including reload times (if they’re claiming to use Rapid Shot, that’s a Combat Manoeuvre as well…)

    March 14, 2015 at 5:30 am #266425
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Early in tier 2, Ss’kethis will be able to do:

    Tralian Hammer:
    1) hit: 2d10 (base) + d10 (Mi) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 3 (Smite)
    dmg: d12 (weapon) + d10 (Mi) + 5 (Mighty Swing) + 1 (Exceptional) + 1 (AP) + d4(d8) (Smite)
    9) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery)
    dmg: d12 (weapon) + d10 (Mi) + 1 (exceptional) + 1 (AP)
    15) final dmg avg: 6.5+5.5+5+1+1+2.5+4.5+6.5+5.5+1+1 = 40 / 14 = 2.85 dpt
    future (no Smite): 33 / 13 = 2.54 dpt

    Tail Bracer:
    1) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 3 (Smite)
    dmg: d6 (weapon) + d10 (Mi) + 1 (exceptional) + d4(d8) (Smite)
    5) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery)
    dmg: d6 (weapon) + d10 (Mi) + 1 (exceptional)
    8) final dmg avg: 3.5+5.5+1+2.5+4.5+3.5+5.5+1 = 27 / 7 = 3.85 dpt
    future (no Smite): 10 / 3 = 3.33 dpt

    Things I could add by early Tier 3 to improve the damage (ignoring further skill/attribute bumps):

  • Add Wolf Pack talent[/*:m]
  • Add Vital Strike maneuver[/*:m]
  • Add Exceptional Celerity Rune (Tralian)[/*:m]
  • Add fine elemental rune (both)[/*:m]
  • Add Might rune[/*:m]
  • Add fine Stone rune[/*:m]
    Tralian Hammer:
    1) hit: 2d10 (base) + d12+1 (Mi Might/Stone) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 3 (Smite) + 1 (Wolf Pack)
    dmg: 2d6 (mastery 3) + 2d6 (Vital Strike) + d12+1 (Mi Might/Stone) + 5 (Mighty Swing) + 1 (Exceptional) + 1 (AP) + 1 (Wolf Pack) + 1 (elemental) + d4(d8) (Smite)
    8) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 1 (Wolf Pack)
    dmg: 2d6 (mastery 3) + d12+1 (Mi Might/Stone) + 1 (exceptional) + 1 (AP) + 1 (Wolf Pack) + 1 (elemental)
    14) final dmg avg: 7+7+7.5+5+1+1+1+1+2.5+4.5+7+7.5+1+1+1+1 = 56 / 13 = 4.31 dpt
    future (no Smite): 49 / 11 = 4.08 dpt

    Tail Bracer:
    1) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 3 (Smite) + 1 (Wolf Pack)
    dmg: d8 (mastery 3) + d12 + 1 (Mi Might/Stone) + 1 (exceptional) + 1 (Wolf Pack) + 1 (elemental) + d4(d8) (Smite)
    5) hit: 2d10 (base) + d8 (Pr) + 7 (ranks) + 1 (mastery) + 1 (Wolf Pack)
    dmg: d8 (mastery 3) + d12+1 (Mi Might/Stone) + 1 (exceptional) + 1 (Wolf Pack) + 1 (elemental)
    8) final dmg avg: 4.5+7.5+1+1+1+2.5+4.5+4.5+7.5+1+1+1 = 37 / 7 = 5.29 dpt
    future (no Smite): 15 / 3 = 5 dpt

    Note: Vital Strike actually lowers the dpt of the Tail Bracer.
    Edit: Just reread Exceptional Celerity Rune – not as good as I thought (only -1 speed when doing maneuver costing the Tralian Hammer about 0.4 dpt).

March 14, 2015 at 6:15 am #266426
Anonymous
Inactive

So many of these stacked things are 1/scene (or spells with strain), so after the damage spike it should taper off dramatically.

I may be forgetting huge parts of this attack, but even with Sniper’s Eye (a ONE TIME +3 to attack and damage) I cannot see how this attack does more than 2d10(d10)-2 damage (avg 14.5 dmg) with the next one dealing d10(d10)(d10) damage (avg 16.5 damage). Would anyone care to enlighten me as to how this worked?

I’d start by asking how they’re getting Sniper’s Eye off to start with; since it takes 60 ticks…

Not including reload times (if they’re claiming to use Rapid Shot, that’s a Combat Manoeuvre as well…)

I know of whom you speak, and have often wondered the same. I will say this, I know he was planning (or possibly erroneously using the Rune early) to use the Exceptional Celerity Rune. An Exceptional Longbow is a Speed 5 weapon. Utilizing Unbalancing Attack it becomes a Speed 6 (or Speed 5 with that Rune). As cheesey as this gets, If you follow that with a Rapid Shot (a 0/0 maneuver) or even a Point Blank Shot (a maneuver with no time adjustments at all)….with the Rune you reduce the Speed of the attack by 1 when using a maneuver….so the Speed 5 bow with a Rapid Reload just became a Speed 4.

March 14, 2015 at 8:06 am #266427
frootsnax
Participant

I judged *that* gnome in question during 2 slots at Arcaniscon. Enjoyed the player and character. Yeah, was somewhat suspicious of the math. Didn’t delve into it at the table. I had split APLs at each table and generally used the lower defense stats for creatures but with the higher hit points totals. I confess, having someone in the party who could inflict a ton of damage was helpful to keep us finishing the mods on time.

Doing 30+ points of damage a hit is a big deal. TMK the only legal way to do it is with smiting or getting lucky with your dice. Mighty Powerful Thrust with a fervidite weapon, wolfpack and a rune can often be +12/+13 damage. I think that’s the best of the “plain vanilla” combos anyone could put together for static bonuses. Smiting by talent or spell is generally the best way to add dice to the equation (though as we up in tiers some interesting optional also open up through MTs).

As an aside, Tukufu is not built for delivering high damage. But against an Ordainer he pumped out 43 points of damage over a short period of time (8 ticks) with all three flintlocks he carried. That’s currently his personal best.

March 14, 2015 at 11:44 am #266429
Anonymous
Inactive

As cheesey as this gets, If you follow that with a Rapid Shot (a 0/0 maneuver) or even a Point Blank Shot (a maneuver with no time adjustments at all)….with the Rune you reduce the Speed of the attack by 1 when using a maneuver….so the Speed 5 bow with a Rapid Reload just became a Speed 4.

Point Blank Shot doesn’t count as a maneuver for this purpose (Category: N/A, Speed: None). Nothing to modify.

Are they taking the -4 for shooting into melee? Using Precise Aim will slow it down a bit more.

March 14, 2015 at 1:06 pm #266431
Anonymous
Inactive

As cheesey as this gets, If you follow that with a Rapid Shot (a 0/0 maneuver) or even a Point Blank Shot (a maneuver with no time adjustments at all)….with the Rune you reduce the Speed of the attack by 1 when using a maneuver….so the Speed 5 bow with a Rapid Reload just became a Speed 4.

Point Blank Shot doesn’t count as a maneuver for this purpose (Category: N/A, Speed: None). Nothing to modify.

Are they taking the -4 for shooting into melee? Using Precise Aim will slow it down a bit more.

You mean the -1? (higher ground w/Use Terrain makes Tactical Edge a +3)
You may be right on the Point Blank…I know it has the N/A, but I will need to recheck the Rune. Also, I might be confusing it with another Talent/Rune/Magic Item.

March 14, 2015 at 1:25 pm #266432
Anonymous
Inactive

If the character is getting TacEdge from higher ground *that* frequently, there’s either something wrong with the map or the GM is way too lenient.

90% of the maps I’ve seen for the campaign are flat terrain.

I looked at Use Terrain and couldn’t see how I would ever get to use it outside mounted combat (which again is far too infrequent and only applies to 1h weapons).

March 14, 2015 at 1:38 pm #266433
Anonymous
Inactive

The event for Arcanicon was set in Savona with stacks of crates and potentially buildings to get up on top of. That would take time, but higher ground was available.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

March 14, 2015 at 4:54 pm #266449
Anonymous
Inactive

I am ‘that gnome’, and if the #’s are incorrect, I’d like to know so that I can correct it before any more play becomes available.

Might of 8: D10
Advantageous Deformity (Enlarged Hands): Bumps from D10 to D12
Bands of Iron’s Might (Might Rune): (Speed +1 to start it up on first attack) Bumps from D12 to 2d6

so, 2d6 for Might damage when using the rings.

Pugilist gives you d4 (Might), so, d4 (2d6). Iron Fists bumps the d4 to a d6.

Advantageous Deformity (Hunched Back) gives me +2 to damage
Skin of Thorns gives me a +2 to damage and a +2 AR

so, damage is currently d6+2d6+4, every 3 ticks. With the poison on the spikes, if I beat their Fortitude, it deals an additional d8 every 4 ticks. Looking through my papers, I think I was referencing what I had written down for the ‘Smite Heretic” spell at a previous module I played, bumping the d6 to a d8, which was wrong of me. I’ve crossed it out so that will never happen again.

I’m still going through stuff to see where the additional +4 came from. I’m not sure from where yet though.

Chris

March 14, 2015 at 5:16 pm #266454
Anonymous
Inactive


so, damage is currently d6+2d6+4, every 3 ticks. With the poison on the spikes, if I beat their Fortitude, it deals an additional d8 every 4 ticks.

I’m not sure I agree with the second part. The poison on the thorns is effectively a carry attack assuming you hit with your unarmed, or alternatively if you’re grappled. The spell notes a secondary attack roll using Arcanum(Vigor) at which point you’d add the damage. The wording is bad when it talks about 2 at 4 ticks/4 ticks. My reading would be that the initial poison attack/damage would come at 4 ticks after the initial hit and then another 4 ticks after that. I’m not as familiar with the poison rules, so I’m not sure what happens if you hit the same target with another poison attack before the first poison runs it’s course. Given that it’s a poison I would agree with you that it’s an attack against Fortitude even though the spell doesn’t call that out.

I do agree that base damage is d6(2d6)+4. The nice thing about the 2d6 is that the stat d6s can explode independently increasing the likelihood of additional damage. You only “lose out” if you happen to roll box cars as only 1 die would explode, but the frequency of at least 1 die exploding is pretty good. Looks like it’s a nice effective quick attack without even factoring in things like wolf pack tactics or any sort of maneuvers.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

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