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- June 20, 2014 at 6:15 pm #151330AnonymousInactive
Any Talent granted by a Archetype, Background, or Path ignores limited and requirements.
Knight Errant grants Any Combat Talent. As it stands that would allow The Perfect Cut at Tier I or Learn Fighting Style (Any)
Has this already been nerfed or is this as designed?
June 20, 2014 at 6:24 pm #263216AnonymousInactiveOnly Talents ‘specifically’ granted by name ignore Limited when given by an Archetype, Path, or Background. General ‘Any Combat’ Talents do not.
John
June 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm #263217frootsnaxParticipantGood question. My understanding is that if you somehow get a talent of a higher tier before you are the requisite tier then The talent squats inert on your character sheet until your reach the right tier.
In the case of the Perfect Cut I guess you could take it with knight Errant … But then would probably wait a long time to ever use it.
June 20, 2014 at 6:29 pm #263218frootsnaxParticipantOnly Talents ‘specifically’ granted by name ignore Limited when given by an Archetype, Path, or Background. General ‘Any Combat’ Talents do not.
John
I don’t think thats true. Asked this question on the old boards since Rysard … my first LA PC … went KE after the BI at Jappa. I wanted to get MT: Sweeping Strike. The ruling I got at the time was that it was a legal choice.
Eric
June 20, 2014 at 6:30 pm #263220AnonymousInactivePerfect Cut requires Tier IV. Unless “Perfect Cut” is given to you by name specifically by a Path/Background/Archetype, you cannot bypass the Tier requirement.
John
June 20, 2014 at 6:31 pm #263221AnonymousInactiveOnly Talents ‘specifically’ granted by name ignore Limited when given by an Archetype, Path, or Background. General ‘Any Combat’ Talents do not.
John
I don’t think thats true. Asked this question on the old boards since Rysard … my first LA PC … went KE after the BI at Jappa. I wanted to get MT: Sweeping Strike. The ruling I got at the time was that it was a legal choice.
Eric
Sweeping Strike is not a Limited Talent. You cannot ignore the “Limited” Talent restriction, nor can you ignore the TIer restriction.
John
June 20, 2014 at 6:35 pm #263223AnonymousInactiveSweeping Strike is not a Limited Talent. You cannot ignore the “Limited” Talent restriction, nor can you ignore the TIer restriction.
John
this is my recollection also but I’m trying to find it in the FAQ so that it is clearly stated
Edit 2nd page of the FAQ give that information for Archtype selection.
ARPG 274 “Talents granted by Paths ignore prerequisites, but not restrictions (such as a racial restriction)”
Tier is certainly a restriction, so no perfect cut.
June 20, 2014 at 6:39 pm #263225AnonymousInactiveSweeping Strike is not a Limited Talent. You cannot ignore the “Limited” Talent restriction, nor can you ignore the TIer restriction.
John
this is my recollection also but I’m trying to find it in the FAQ so that it is clearly stated
For Archetypes it was clarified in the errata (Page 13), but we’ll need to make sure that extends to Path/Background also.
John
June 20, 2014 at 6:51 pm #263227AnonymousInactiveThank you for the responses. I appreciate your diligence. Just to be clear The Perfect Cut is not Limited nor is it a Tiered just a plain old Combat Talent. It has Tier IV as a requirement, but nothing in the rules as written, unless it is in a FAQ I have not seen, seems to prevent this at Tier I. In fact an Elder Sorcerers Apprentice could apparently start the game with it. Which seems ridiculous to me.
Personally, I am not emotionally invested either way. I am simply looking through more Martial related Paths and Talents as my Templar of Sarish has no options at this time for taking Arcane Paths for more than 1 or two Tiers without becoming a Priest or a Psion.
June 20, 2014 at 6:55 pm #263228frootsnaxParticipantOkay. That more or less makes sense. I’ve always been a little confused about what requirements you can or cannot ignore. But I think we’re all in agreement you can ‘t take the Perfect Cut as a Tier 1/2 character.
June 20, 2014 at 7:00 pm #263230AnonymousInactivecan you provide a reference to this statement:
“Any Talent granted by a Archetype, Background, or Path ignores limited and requirements.”
That’s what your basing your argument on but i cant find a reference to it in any book ( so can you tell me where its at ?)
June 20, 2014 at 7:01 pm #263232AnonymousInactiveI remember it being said (on phone, so don’t have reference) that you cannot supercede Tier unless specifically given by name. Even then, you cannot get the benefits until you reach the proper tier. Since Perfect Cut lists Tier IV as a requirement, you cannot supercede it.
June 20, 2014 at 7:04 pm #263233AnonymousInactiveThank you for the responses. I appreciate your diligence. Just to be clear The Perfect Cut is not Limited nor is it a Tiered just a plain old Combat Talent. It has Tier IV as a requirement, but nothing in the rules as written, unless it is in a FAQ I have not seen, seems to prevent this at Tier I. In fact an Elder Sorcerers Apprentice could apparently start the game with it. Which seems ridiculous to me.
You cannot take a Talent above your Tier unless it is specifically given to you by name through an Archetype, Path, or Background. It has been stated many times here and in the upcoming errata just for clarification.
John
June 20, 2014 at 7:04 pm #263234AnonymousInactiveOkay. That more or less makes sense. I’ve always been a little confused about what requirements you can or cannot ignore. But I think we’re all in agreement you can ‘t take the Perfect Cut as a Tier 1/2 character.
This is spelled out precisely in the new errata: You can’t ignore Racial Restrictions, Limited Restriction, or Tier.
John
June 20, 2014 at 7:55 pm #263244AnonymousInactivecan you provide a reference to this statement:
“Any Talent granted by a Archetype, Background, or Path ignores limited and requirements.”
That’s what your basing your argument on but i cant find a reference to it in any book ( so can you tell me where its at ?)
Absolutely Josh,
Talents Page 170 A:RPG
Under Notations:“Limited: Limited Talents can only be acquired through an Archetype, Background, or Path. These Talents cannot be acquired by any other means.”
Under Requirements:
“When a Talent is taken, you must meet all stated requirements, except when the Talent is acquired through an Archetype, Background, or Path.”
Also, there is no errata for page 170 of A:RPG here:
http://www.paradigmconcepts.com/Downloa … _(05-07-12).pdfTo the best of my knowledge this is why the Spell Casting talents, Spontaneously Awakened and Advanced Armor Training are No Type and PCI never allows an Archetype, Background, or Path to grant Choose any one Talent without specifying a type. This allows them to grant limited talents with any new background, path, or I suppose Archetype if they wanted to create a new one. The loophole that needs to be closed here with another edition, errata, or additional rules in a new book is specifying which requirements can be ignored and which cannot. Unfortunately, that paints them into a corner if they decide to make a path that grants The Perfect Cut at Tier III for example.
Besides The Perfect Cut does anyone else see any Combat Talents that Knight Errant and Elder Sorcerer’s Apprentice should not be able to take? I’d like to use this discussion to come up with a suggested fix for PCI.
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