Loot availability/distribution in adventures

I like that most items in Arcanis are not a huge bonus. However, at the same time, the loot options when they occur are often worth far more than the gold share. It can be very frustrating to miss out on an item that you now can’t ever get …snip… I don’t like the permissive LFR loot system (choose whatever you want of an appropriate level) but Arcanis seems overly restrictive. It’s less of an issue if a group always plays together because someone in the group will always have the items found but a lot of LA groups are pick-up so there’s a fair chance any given item obtained will be unavailable in the next group you play with.

I have some sympathies to your position. I played the first arc with my Nierite HC and I missed out on magic items looted from Ymandrakes when we rolled for stuff. Then there was one other module where Crusaders found magic items and I was disappointed that (from his perspective) they were all essentially icky. So he went through the Crusade without picking up a magic item. Yeah. I felt frustration. Whenever I go back through the mod with the Ymandrakes I Jones a little for that beautiful relic cert.

But frustration also passes. Tukufu has had much better luck in the second arc. Hopefully proving things even out over time.

I would contest the point that magic items are undervalued in gold. Some are. Some aren’t. The last item I have received is valued at 10 gc (ie 2 runes). As a mechanical matter 2 runes would probably be more valuable to him … but I have resisted selling both because its cool & because I can eventually buy those runes and I’d never be able to buy this item back… BUT it wasn’t the most expensive item out there. If I had somehow gotten the (IMO) less useful item valued at 20 gold Tukufu would almost certainly be sporting a lot of runic bling.

Would it really hurt anything if there were 2 or even 3 copies of items available in the adventures?

I know of some judges who have done this when they felt an item was “perfect” for more than one PC. Its obviously a subjective call as to what qualifies as “perfect.” And its out of line with the campaign guide. Because of that and that double certing has the potential for significant variance with a precious and finite resource, I am uncomfortable with the practice. But I think its a topic that could be addressed with a revision in the campaign guide.

I recall some discussion where the Judge was empowered to do exactly that, provide extra copies of loot where it was appropriate. I dont recall where it is off hand tho

I think recall Tony saying this … maybe at Arcaniscon. But it was a private groups shooting the breeze IIRC. I don’t think its written down anywhere. A lot of potential variance between judges…hence my discomfort. In a home campaign its easy and appropriate for the judge to mke these calls. In a shared campaign its different.

Hello,

I have some serious reservations about allowing GMs to multiply items.

Frankly, how often is an item that is “perfect” for one PC is also “perfect” for a second? I can’t imagine that this would be a significant number. And if an item truly is “perfect” for a PC then the rest of the group should let that player have it.

If the above occurs in a pick up game, then that’s just the way it is. Unless the player can convince the others how perfect that item is for them, then let the dice fall as it may.

Answering the OP’s question, the writers take great care and do much hand wringing to put in items that make sense for the story and are interesting for Heroes to have. Multiplying this amount completely throws this calculation out of whack and can easily lead to economic inflation with peopel selling off items for coin.

No item is REQUIRED in ARG for the player to succeed. It’s a cool perk and it might give you a slight edge, but we purposefully designed the system to slide the power scale towards what the Hero can do and not what he carries on him.

That’s my take on things.

Remember, while some rewards may state that there is only a limited number per table (one magical sword, etc…), if it will cause problems, you have the authority to give out multiple copies to those for whom it makes sense.

Page 5 of the current campaign guide

That seems like an odd rule. It seems to be saying if people are argumentative and difficult then they should be given something extra that polite players do not get. I’d prefer a modification to the rule to the effect of “items may be duplicated if multiple players want it but all copies now have a value of 0 (eg can never be sold)”. It may not be realistic but it fixes a lot of problems with a shared campaign where most groups are pickup. This allows players who want to use an item to get it but restrict the selling of items (unless only 1 person (or nobody) wanted it).

Thoughts?

::Shrug:: The only items that my character has gotten in all of the ARPG system has been those items that EVERYONE got (or had the option of getting) with the exception of an ancient Flamberge which is less-effective than my usual one from James Zwier’s Delve. Do I feel like I’ve been cheated? Not really. As Tony mentioned, the gear does not make a Hero, it simply is another tool in their toolbox. Would the Greaves of Upheaval be helpful to my character? Yes. Would that mighty-morphing Holy Symbol/Wand thing be useful? Yes. Am I mad I didn’t get them? Not overly.

One alternative to this would be to institute a Marketplace system for the campaign. Maybe have it 1/year (ie: at Origins) Heroes can buy any non-restricted item of their Tier or less if they have the appropriate monies for it. This can be done online with a volunteer handling the book keeping and sending out Certs. A fair amount of work, yes, but doable, and something that can be delegated to someone other than the immediate PCI or Campaign Staff.

I fully support the focus on the character and what they can do rather than the gear they have. I can appreciate there have been some interesting or unusual items that have gone by in the mods I’ve played. Some have been appropriate, some not.

To me, “perfect” would truly need to be perfect. If you had an ancient 1st Imperium flamberge with a divine Nier rune on it once weilded by a lieutenant of Leonydas val’Virdan and there were 2 Martial Nierite Templar Grand Masters of the Flamberge, you could certainly make the case that it’s perfect thematically and mechanically.

Highly useful though is different than perfect. That will come up a lot more often.

I don’t support a once / year Marketplace at a limited event for people to get things. Either it’s a bit more accessible or we just leave it be. As it stands magic items are tradeable I believe or at least some of them are. That can alleviate some of the issues. Perhaps the use of a trading thread on the board which would provide some oversight. Alternatively allow for the purchase say 1/tier of 1 item from a pre-approved list. It provides some flexibility without going overboard given no more than 5 items over the entire span of a character’s career.

To Tony’s point about money, yes and no. There is certainly more money in the campaign than there used to be. When you look at the costs for exceptional quality weapons with a full complement of runes on it, you can be looking at 25 Gc for 4 runes assuming a Tier 2 Exceptional plus whatever the cost of the weapon is. Exceptional quality light armor’s within range and heavy is way out of it.

By and large though, even a fully tricked out weapon provides limited mechanical advantage. It’s slightly faster. It does slightly more damage. It may provide an interesting effect, though often that’s only at the Exceptional level and few exceptional runes are Tier 2. If you’re bringing up a secondary character who won’t get anything except money and XP there are certainly ways to spend it.

Getting cool stuff is usually seen as a fun reward. Even if it’s not a mechanical advantage. If I’d thought about it I probably would have asked if Uxbraxtix had horns and could I have sawed one off. Getting something made out of that might have been cool even without any official cert or mechanical advantage.

Perhaps there’s an opportunity to add a bit more flavor specific rewards that have little or no mechanical advantage. Make them untradable or priceless so no monetary advantage or make them minimal benefit. This helps avoid the power creep, still provides some cool “stuff” for people to take away and provide some balance for people getting something even if it doesn’t make sense to have enough items to cover everyone at the table.

Thoughts?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

As one of the more vocal dissenters when the change to a “Relic Based Magic Item Economy” was instituted (Basically where there was only 1 of each item), I have to say that I have not personally seem too many issues with distribution or fairness. In the games I’ve played in, there are generally only 2-3 people max who want any one given item and sometimes if it’s a highly specialized item, there’s only 1 anyways. Usually the decision comes down to:

1) Bargaining/Dealing: One characters offers some ‘payment’ to the others and is allowed to take the item in question OR
2) Random: Everyone rolls a die and winner takes it

#1 is a lot more fun to watch, but #2 happens a lot also. It may take a few adventures but usually these things balance out in the long run. One thing I have seen is that if someone gets an item, they don’t get a share of the gold. Also if there’s an item that no one wants, it’s usually sold at the table and the proceeds split by those who got no magic items.

So far the authors and campaign staff have been good at item distribution in my opinion and there a few key things that have made this possible:

A) There are usually 3-5 items in each adventure now that can be given out
B) There is a nice variety in items that are being given out (weapons, armor, wands, special miscellaneous items) so that it’s possible each person wants just 1 item

As long as the above continues, I don’t see this as a long term problem. I’ve been on all sides. There have been items I’ve wanted and lost, items I’ve wanted and gotten, and times when I didn’t want anything but the non-certed piece of fluff that no one else did

A few points I’d like to address that others have brought up:

Henry, you make some good points and the system does a good job of not being item-reliant. However, for the vast majority of players, *every* Arcanis game is a pick-up game since a lot of folks play at conventions or game days. Therefore, any discussion needs to take that into account.

Tony, while there may be a few characters who have enough money to retire and need nothing, I would argue that given the rising costs of runes (at higher Tiers) and the cost to buy Exceptional Weapons, that this is not the common scenario characters are in. I know personally I need to accumulate 38gp for my Exceptional Weapon and I’m about half of the way there saving up. I have bought 2 Runes in the last 4 years, so even if I’d saved everything I might *just* be able to afford it right now at Tier 2.6.

John