Question about Bindings of Sarish

From what I understand, Unbound would relate to a ‘native’ Infernal to the plane of Arcanis rather than one that originates on the Infernal Planes. Sarish commands the Infernals of the Infernal Planes, but NOT ones ‘native’ to Arcanis itself. This was seen in the past in the 3.5 days when minions of the Thousand Eyed Man were immune to the powers of Sarish.

As to Unbound not being in the Bestiary, remember that it is only the Bestiary vol. 1. There have been no canon examples of ‘native’ Infernals of Arcanis (remember, the followers of Uhxrbactit were all ‘summoned’ en mass by the Myrantian Curse and are technically from the Infernal Plane) which have shown up yet, so there has thus far been no need to specify this Trait yet.

Presumably it would, but until the rules for ‘native’ Unbound Infernals are released in a subsequent Bestiary volume or an adventure, I cannot say this with certainty. Additionally, I remember in the 3.5 days my Holy Champion of Sarish was completely unaware that he could NOT affect the minions of the Thousand Eyed Man, so a Sarishan with Knowledge (the Planes) might just look at one of these native creatures and go “wtf is that thing?!”

page 82 Codex of Heroes
Mark of the Binder (ta) [Limited]
Benefit: You have been trained to recognize the Sigil of Sarish and thus can tell at a glance, if an Infernal is bound or unbound. You must be able to clearly see the Infernal to use this ability.

So far it can only be gained through the Cantenari path.

I was looking at the Bindings of Sarish spell recently wondering why it was made that way. In the past it was different. In the D&D 3.5 days the purpose was to bind unbound infernals (such as the ones from above the Gods Wall.)
I’m sure Nierite is mistaken, all the Infernals from Uhxrbactit’s army are unbound, as they are all considered native to Arcanis. They were not summoned by the Myrantian Curse. The Myrantian Curse created tears between the Infernal Plane and the Material Plane and the Infernals walked right through those tears. Definitely not summoned.
Bindings of Sarish would have no effect on any of them.
But you can cast it on infernals that are already bound.

For what purpose is the next question. The only answer I have is to have the infernal working for you instead of your enemy. In the Crusade Arc there are 3 instances of fighting a bound infernal. If you had the spell and could get it off, you would take control of the infernal, and turn an enemy into an ally.

I know one of the things I needed to relearn going from 3.5 to the new rules is Sarishian Steel.
In 3.5 days Sarishian Steel bypassed Damage Reduction on bound infernals, and had no effect on unbound infernals. Tempered Sarishian Steel bypassed Damage Reduction on both bound and unbound infernals.
In the new rules Sarishian Steel adds d8 damage to bound and unbound infernals. And Tempered Sarishian Steel bypasses AR and deals d8 damage to bound and unbound infernals.

Until the Gods Wall fell people very rarely encountered unbound infernals. That is what made them so dangerous (such as the minions of the Thousand Eyed Man). The Sarishian Steel we had was useless and Sarishian’s were unable to turn or rebuke them.
I would assume some changes had to be made considering in the Crusade Arc all we fought were unbound infernals.

Sorry this make the spell much less useful. But it probably is the correct way of looking at it.

Assuming that the Vault’s conclusions are correct then …

For all practical purposes, the only reason to cast the spell is to wrest control of a bound infernal from someone else. Not something that will come up often, if at all. Ok, that stinks but I’l live with it. How can you follow the Sarishan Binder path and NOT be able to bind infernals??

But let’s say the situation comes up. The target to bind an infernal is its Discipline. Is that enough, if the infernal is already bound? There’s no other roll required to oppose the current binder? Apart from interrupting the spell, the current binder can do nothing?

You should potentially be able to bind the infernals beyond the wall. Its clear from the mods that the Encali want to just that. That should be Bindings of Sarish.

But it’s never been clear to me that standard rebukes or wards should affect the infernals beyond the wall since they are not bound nor summoned and thus should be free from Sarish’s influence. I have never pushed this point as a judge or a player. Because it’s potentially a big deal, a headache, and there is nothing in the stat blocks to suggest immunity from certain spell effects.

Cody is certainly correct that some infernals may not be bindable (1000 Man & minions). This further complicates just what the descriptor “Unbound” really means.

Finally I believe you can bind something that is already bound (among other things see Thrice Bound as a limitation). I don’t know that you gain complete control by doing so. I think it might limit the creature to actions condoned by all binders (so is more likely to force the creature into “neutrality”)….I admit this last part is guesswork on my part. I’d appreciate a deeper explanation from campaign staff on the topic.

There’s more than one way to bind an infernal.

I have little idea about what the Hyena men were stated out as…my table fought Blight Beaers in the basement. And honestly a lot was left for the special judges to interpret and “wing.” But I can tell you IC or OOC that Ymandragore has its own binding style for controlling infernals (Bindings of Ymandragore?) that apparently has nothing to do with Sarishian teachings.

I don’t know what happens if a Sarishian tries to bind an infernal that’s already bound by Ymandrake (or other) magic.

Several prior posters in this thread have been inappropriately mixing up Bound/Unbound with Native/Extraplanar, especially in their statements about d20 rules. Be careful not to trust all posters unless you confirm their sources. For example, the d20 rule was that standard Sarishan steel did not affect Native Infernals but tempered Sarishan steel did affect Native Infernals; and it had nothing to do with Bound or Unbound. See Legacy of Damnation rules.

For the most part, Infernals from Beyond the Wall were considered Native and Unbound, whereas summoned Infernals were considered Extraplanar and Bound. In the years before the Gods’ Wall fell, the default was that practically all Infernals encountered in Onara were Extraplanar and Bound. Still, it is possible for an Infernal to be Extraplanar and Unbound or to be Native and Bound.