Rules questions arising from Tyrfang

no idea what the cert says, but that will override anything i say BUT!
this is from the mod

At the beginning of every combat, a wielder of Tyrfang must allow 12 ticks to pass, offering every foe an opportunity to surrender or flee, or the sword will refuse to let itself be drawn for the duration of the combat. Once the 12 ticks have passed, Tyrfang will allow itself to be drawn as normal. Tyrfang is also Envious, and will not permit its wielder(s) to bear any other bladed weapons.

so AS i see it you can not draw it unless you spend the first 12 ticks of combat trying to verbally get people to surrender, i personally would allow you to move also during that time, but thats about it, in particular no casting because that means your not trying to get people to surrender (i would however let you actually use persuasion to try to get people to be nice)

i would guess that that 12 ticks starts on your initiative.

in the first 12 ticks of trying to get people to surrender(assuming your trying to get people to surrender)
Total defense : no, its something other than moving and talking
distract other : no same
tactical : yes if trained in unarmed
defensive stance : yes if you can enter for free ( i forget )

if you cant draw tyrfang at all because you didn’t do all the right things
total defense : yes
distract other, yes
tactical: yes
defensive stance: yes

again this is mainly my conjecture at this point based on what the mod says not what your cert says

I would say no to granting the tactical or distract other. Threatening to grant tactical is obviously offensive. And I would say the blade knows that distract opponent targets foes with the intent of doing them damage.

As was pointed out, the certificate says that at the beginning of every combat, the wielder of Tyrfang must allow 12 ticks to pass, offering every foe an opportunity to surrender or flee, or the sword will refuse to allow itself to be drawn for the duration of the combat. After 12 ticks, Tyrfang may be drawn as normal.

In my opinion, people are reading too much into this. The certificate says “an opportunity to flee or surrender.” It does not require me to do nothing else during the 12 ticks but continue to offer an opportunity to flee to surrender. It says nothing about retreat; the implication is the enemy should be allowed to surrender or run away.

I played it in my first game as follows: I called upon all foes to surrender or flee, then waited the 12 turns before taking any offensive action. In the meantime, I healed, buffed, challenged, etc.

But when the enemy ignored my call to flee and attacked, I was left trying to defend myself until the 12 ticks was up. We discovered that the rules do not explicitly state what defenses required a drawn weapon and what does not I want to know what options I have in just defending.

Saying it is up to individual GMs means I never know if character is going to be able to support the group or not until the GM decides. I would rather have an official ruling and then be able to show that ruling to GM if there is any question.

To clarify the intention of Tyrfang, and to provide official answers:

1) Can Tyrfang be drawn at all before the 12 ticks is over?

No.

2) When does the 12 tick count start? At the beginning of the scene or on my first move?

On your first move. Yes, this means a poor initiative roll can be extremely painful.

3) If Tyrfang cannot be drawn, can the following be done without a weapon in hand?

Total defense?
Distract other?
Provide tactical for another?
Defensive stance bonus for yourself?

Total defense: Yes. Tyrfang will not prevent you from defending yourself to the best of your ability so long as you are unarmed while doing so, and nothing in Total Defense requires you to have a weapon drawn to do so.
Distract Other: No. This can be interpreted (and is, by Tyrfang) as an offensive action.
Provide Tactical Edge: No. Same as distract other.
Defensive Stance bonus: No. The Talent states that you are suffering a penalty to attack rolls in exchange for a bonus to Avoidance. A stance is by definition an offensive action (even if the talent is called “Defensive Stance”).

That said, I agree with most of your interpretations: You may heal, buff your allies (so long as no damage or harmful effects are done to your foes), and challenge (with all the risks that entails).

However, Tyrfang will not differentiate between foes. Mindless, bestial, undead, intelligent, hyper-intelligent, etc… are treated all the same to this sword. You do not know that something cannot understand you; only that it does not appear to understand you. Tyrfang has its own Code of Honour, which includes treating all potential foes the same, and mindless or otherwise it will not allow *anything* to be slain if it can prevent it.

As far as convincing a wolf to surrender, I point you to the idea of using Beast Lore (Ch) instead of Persuasion. But that’s neither here nor there for the purposes of this discussion. The point is that Tyrfang requires you to make your best effort to convince your foe to stand down.

The second question was my attempt to deal with this problem for the group. Does using the thunder rune on Tyrfang constitute an attack? It does no damage, but does push their clock. I used it at the beginning of my move to get their attention and then issued my call to surrender. Is this allowed, or does use of the thunder ruin also have to wait for the 12 tick expiration?

The Thunder rune is an offensive action which inhibits an enemy’s ability to flee (through push). You would have to wait for the 12 ticks.

Okay, that I think gives me a good feel what to do and how to do it. Although I initially was not happy at this, it certainly will be a defining event in my character’s life with some interesting possibilities. I am looking forward to playing with Tryfang now and seeing where it goes. I will stop bothering asking you questions now.

Thank you again.

in retrospect… it might be awesome for tyrfang to have a fate point override built in