Something we should know – PARADIGM CONCEPTS

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February 22, 2015 at 2:23 am #151653
Anonymous
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So there is something interesting from the first year of the first campaign the characters saw that wasn’t fully described to the players, and I’m wondering if some of the missing information can be filled in now that players and characters may know more. After all, some characters did see these images, so they should know these answers, but since the descriptions were never provided to players, we need additional information.
Specifically, the descriptions of races depicted on the Room of the Long Count in the City of Green Death in the Year of Ill harvest (pg 79 of published product), “…In the ruins is an enormous octagonal room, which appears to be some sort of calendar. On each wall are pictograph representations of time and the race ascendant of the age. On presumably the first wall is a series of undecipherable glyphs with large bipedal humanoid creature with two arms and two tentacles like appendages growing from its side. It seems to have a very narrow and sharp profile that extends higher and lower than a human’s. After that, each wall covers another strange species but eventually you can recognize a Ssethregoran Serpent Man, than an Elorii, and finally a human being. Ominously, the final two walls are blank….”
So out if 6 walls with images on them, we got descriptions of 4 – leaving information out about 2. This was at the start of the campaign, when the characters hadn’t seen much, but I’m wondering if anything on there would look more familiar now? Here are the basic questions that sprang to my mind:
1. In LA-HP4-06 Sacrifice of Generations, we met the Khi’faree, who were supposedly an earlier race on Onara, who were destroyed by the PoM. They was described as “a vaguely humanoid shape, but its skin seems to be made from a crystalline substance. Small flashes of light skirt lightning-like throughout its entire body. Stranger still is its head, which is shaped like an elongated triangle.” If this is true, and the room is accurate, shouldn’t an image in the room have looked like a Khi’faree?
2. I assume the first one didn’t. Did either of the undescribed images look like the Khi’faree?
3. In LA-SP5-05 To Spin an Ancient Web, and LA-SP5-10 Trembling of an Ancient Web we got a good idea at least of what an Issori looked (looks?) like. Do either of the undescribed images look like an Issori?
4. Have we seen anything that looks at all similar to that first image throughout the campaign? (Specifically thinking of the Voiceless ones here) As far as I can tell, no, but thought it would be wise to ask.
5. If the undescribed images aren’t a Khi’faree and an Issori, can we get a description of them?
February 22, 2015 at 4:01 am #266067
Anonymous
Inactive
1) We know that the Khi’faree were destroyed when the Pantheon of Man came back in time from the end of the world/universe and overthrew their Gods. The Khi’faree then fell into chaos and eventually died off. As such, they may be in one of the two ‘undescribed’ walls, or they never were ‘in ascendant’ and didn’t warrant a wall of their own in the same way that the Gar were not on the Ssethric wall.
2) There is nothing listed in any works I have access to. They remain undescribed in canon.
3) We know exactly what an Issori looks like as there is a picture of it in the new Blessed Lands book, both on the released art on the Kickstarter page and in the released History chapter. They look like a cross between a mantis and an ant.
4) Nothing that we have seen in canon–to my knowledge–seem to match this four-limbed (two armed, two tentacled) creatures. The closest in my mind was the original descriptions of the Ymandrake Thralls, but recent art in the ARPG book shows a much different looking creature. That said, we do have a list of other races in canon such as the Merucks and Derleth in the Ssethregore book. Then again, the earliest histories of Onara that we have is when the Ssethrics migrated to Onara from the south, and since there are two ‘unknown’ walls between the tentacled creatures and the Ssethrics, there was probably thousands of years between them so we simply do not have any source of information on them.
What we (should) know about the ‘unknown’ two epochs is that one of them is NOT the Il’Huan, as the Heroes will have met them already in the Year of Ill Harvest. They may be the Issori, the Gar (unlikely as the Heroes would be vaguely familiar with them as they still exist), and the Eladru, but until we go back there, we’ll never really know.
February 22, 2015 at 9:52 am #266070
frootsnax
Participant
TMK we have never encountered the tentacle/armed guys.
Personally I do not think they represent the Issori, nor the Kiafree nor the Ymandragores thralls. My best guess is that they represent the “Ur-Civilization” of Onara in a time so unbelievably old we don’t even really have legends about them. But just because I believe thats really the case doesn’t necessarily make it so.
Henry and company are usually pretty good about continuity and consistency but we’ve also seen a few things that have changed or been refined in the course of the game (the name of Xerces/Xercel, Xabals patron, the name of the old Duke of Tralia and the color of Sarishian steel) so it’s not 100% impossible that the figures represent an early draft of something like the Khiafree (for example). I would finally note that we know nothing of the murals creators and there is no reason to assume they were infallible either. That sketch might be their “best guess” about the size and shape of something ancient. It’s another piece of subjective knowledge.
Regardless it’s a mystery to me.
February 22, 2015 at 8:08 pm #266072
Anonymous
Inactive
My guess is that the 1st space was shown to appear primordial and strange, and the next two weren’t described to lend to the air of mystery, which I think was well done. BUT… now that there are characters who have adventured to multiple different worlds and seen ancient races, it seems like it would be relevant that when they see the Khi’faree they could think back and realize they look like the creature in the second wall. Same with the Issori. I’m just wondering if what was on those walls is something campaign staff would at least be willing to confirm/deny, even if they aren’t willing to describe it outright.
And of course, there is always room for error in the room, or out interpretation of the room. I would love for the city of green death to be a future BI/special scenario!
February 22, 2015 at 9:38 pm #266073
Anonymous
Inactive
From my experience with the campaign, we are unlikely to get any words from the Campaign Staff (Henry specifically) until it shows up in a product. Basically, until it is relevant in the story, Henry is not going to give us any information on stuff our present characters will not know, including two or three ancient races which predate our earliest knowledge of the universe. Hell, one of them could be the source of the Valinor, or the Sorcerer-King, or the Gods themselves, so keeping them mysterious keeps the story going for longer.
That said, we know they plan (. . . eventually. . . maybe?. . . we’re waiting. . . $\";)\"$ ) on re-releasing the Year of Ill Harvest in ARPG rules, so we may see more fluff appearing in the rerelease of that mod.
February 23, 2015 at 12:56 am #266075
drafit
Participant
Hello,
From my experience with the campaign, we are unlikely to get any words from the Campaign Staff (Henry specifically) until it shows up in a product.
You’re right, Cody. I usually refrain from commenting on this type of speculation, BUT…
This is actually a screw up on my part.
I wasn’t sure what the Issori were originally going to look like. I was a bit wary of making them Insectiod for a variety of reasons, so I made something up that was suitably vile and alien looking.
But I eventually decided that the insect style was a better fit as it gave me a way to explain how Mount Dagha came to be.
So there you go. When Year 1 is re-released, I’ll correct that.
February 26, 2015 at 9:33 pm #266110
Anonymous
Inactive
Hello,
From my experience with the campaign, we are unlikely to get any words from the Campaign Staff (Henry specifically) until it shows up in a product.
You’re right, Cody. I usually refrain from commenting on this type of speculation, BUT…
This is actually a screw up on my part.
I wasn’t sure what the Issori were originally going to look like. I was a bit wary of making them Insectiod for a variety of reasons, so I made something up that was suitably vile and alien looking.
But I eventually decided that the insect style was a better fit as it gave me a way to explain how Mount Dagha came to be.
So there you go. When Year 1 is re-released, I’ll correct that.
Wow, thanks for the answer! I assume from that, that you mean the second undescribed wall space should have looked like an Issori. Any further clarification on whether the being in the first undescribed place looked like a Khiafree?
February 26, 2015 at 10:43 pm #266111
drafit
Participant
Hello,
Wow, thanks for the answer! I assume from that, that you mean the second undescribed wall space should have looked like an Issori. Any further clarification on whether the being in the first undescribed place looked like a Khiafree?
No. I meant that the figure that appeared to look like a precursor to the Ymandragoran Thrall should have been an Issori.
As for the others, I have no plans on answering that question. $\":-)\"$
February 27, 2015 at 12:30 am #266114
Anonymous
Inactive
No. I meant that the figure that appeared to look like a precursor to the Ymandragoran Thrall should have been an Issori.
As for the others, I have no plans on answering that question. $\":-)\"$
Wow! Awesome! So apparently (According to this room -accuracy may vary) there were two more dominant life forms on Onara (continent, or world?) between the Issori and the Ssethregorans? Despite the fact that the Sseth defeated the Issori? And they don’t look like anything we’ve seen before? That’s….. wow.
And the Khiafree, that probably existed before the Issori don’t even rank? Even though if their existence hadn’t been interrupted their civilization would have lasted until entropy destroyed it? That’s huge! (or the calendar just started with the Issori – which would could be explained with it being an 8 sided room and them being the creator)
February 27, 2015 at 1:09 am #266116
Anonymous
Inactive
Remember: Entropy didn’t destroy the Khi’faree, it was Illiir and the Pantheon. In the original timestream, they survived to become dominent and eventually faced the end of time calmly accepting it. In OUR current timestream, the PoM went back in time, killed/exiled/absorbed/imprisoned their Gods and corrupted them into destroying themselves.
Also, it is possible WE know what the two middle groups are, but the Heroes at the time do not. For all we know they were the Merucks or the Delerath, the Voiceless Ones, the Plectorus, the Singarthans, the Sansho, etc. Hell, it could have been something beyond Khitan or even the Weretigers from the Southern Continent for all we know! Just because the Ssethrics killed the Issori doesn’t mean they instantly became the dominent power on the continent.
February 27, 2015 at 2:12 am #266117
frootsnax
Participant
The two blank spaces most likely represent races that were defeated in the genocidal wars of extermination. Just because the Ssethrics killed the Issori doesn’t mean they were initially best positioned to exploit the power vacuum. Though they clearly clawed their way to the top over the bodies of thier contemporaries/rivals until the elorii cast them down
February 28, 2015 at 8:21 pm #266132
Anonymous
Inactive
Hi Henry,
If your correction is the case and the alien looking figure was meant to be the Issori, does this mean when you need to change the order of the panels as well? We know there was no empire inbetween the Issori and the Ssethrics.
Issori
Unknown
Unknown
Ssethric
Elorii
Human
Blank
Blank
February 28, 2015 at 8:50 pm #266133
Anonymous
Inactive
Why do we know there wasn’t one? There were many empires the Ssethrics conquered after the Issori, such as the Eladru/Cyclopses. We don’t know anything about the area beyond Khitan beyond there is a few human nations there, but what was there before?
February 28, 2015 at 8:58 pm #266137
Anonymous
Inactive
I guess I was thinking rulers of the continent.
The Issori were pretty much the bosses of Onara before the Yassethregoran Empire took over. After that I thought they were just on their genocidal wars. I can’t imagine that they fell and two other empires ruled Onara before they took over. But one of the blank spots could be the giants.
March 2, 2015 at 11:09 pm #266209
Anonymous
Inactive
I always assumed that the races depicted ruled the First City. That’s why the last two are blank. For at least one age, no one race has officially sat upon the Throne to rule the City.
How the makers of the art knew what races would appear in the future is a bigger mystery.
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