Spells into Melee

Ranged(any) sahib

As of right now, Arcane Accuracy does not help with Fort/Disc spells (and, yes, they suffer -4). We definitely need either Arcane Accuracy changed to include Fort/Disc or new talents added for them.

As of right now, Arcane Accuracy does not help with Fort/Disc spells (and, yes, they suffer -4). We definitely need either Arcane Accuracy changed to include Fort/Disc or new talents added for them.

Previous consensus was that Fortitude and Discipline spells tends to be more debilitating and therefore they did not need the ‘boost’. Whether this is still the feeling or not I can’t say.

The Talent for Weapon Attacks affects all defenses, but it’s a maneuver so you’re limited in combining it with a single other base maneuver and it cannot be used with advanced maneuvers.

Allowing the spell attacks to work against all defenses with a single adaptation would take it up a few notches over the combat version with weapons.

John
Wait, wait, wait… When in one of the discussions about advanced spells, I was constantly told you couldn’t compare spells to melee abilities – “apples to oranges” they said.

That’s a good start! Is the talent only helping with avoidance or will it remove the penalty from discipline and fortitude spells cast into melee or do those two spell types not suffer the penalty?

Just avoidance….

Ok let me sum up the basic arguments:

its hard to hit with all the spells because we want to apply cover penalties to avoidance and fortitude based spells and its easier to lump discipline spells in with it….

and we did this in the first place to keep things basically even with ranged weapon attacks

but we are only going to make it easier to get around cover penalties for avoidance based spells because its easier to increase avoidance.

the problem is that any ranged or thrown weapon can take the “Precise aim” trick and viola now they ignore cover penalties (and getting more in depth on comparing tricks and techniques starts to compare apples and oranges)
so now ranged weapons are balanced at hitting things easier.

so some possible solutions i see
take the spell adaptations and let them apply to any spell regardless of defense

take the spell adaptations and let them apply to any spell , but the result only targets avoidance
(yes that means enemy of my enemy might target avoidance)

create similar talents for discipline and fortitude (with different costs) in both arcane and divine

@ John, that’s exactly the apples and oranges i was referring to

I agree with Devin. They can be identical, other than the Discipline they target. That would give spellcasters a way to further specialize.

Something like Adaptation: Arcane Barrage (Fortitude) and Adaptation: Arcane Precision (Discipline)? (Just throwing the first words out there that came to mind)

Pedro it would seem to me that you have more of an issue with the power level of the spells created (Enemy of my Enemy) then how the actual mechanics for casting should work. That’s more of a spell design flaw imo then a good basis for how the casting into combat rules should work.

Personally i don’t think enemy of my enemy is that bad. Its high strain and speed and often creatures miss each other… and its only for one action. But perhaps that’s another thread…

Solution:
I think the talents available should be able to provide the casters a reduction of the -4 penalty to fire into melee for all spells. However what i do propose is that casters do not get the +2 for casting into melee for having a tactical edge. As it makes little sense that they would.

~Tony