Tier V spells from Sorcerous Pacts

Not seeing the text of Sorcerous Pacts, could you make them Secret or Exotic Spells? These spells are not accessible without campaign documentation, a scroll, a Path, etc. which means that your average joe(ios) blow(elia) cannot gain access to them simply by taking Arcane Spell Casting, just like the Death Shroud spell for Deathbringers or the spells from the Order of the Phoenix Book.

For example:

Summon Hurricane
Tradition: Elemental (Elder)(Secret) [Tier V]

Of course, this still brings up the “well, why put it in there?” question as putting in Secret or Exotic spells that people can never get is the same thing as saying it is a Tier VI spell. If they are allowed at all, with the spell descriptors they can be parceled out a bit more by making them VERY hard to learn in the first place (ie: have to take a Path which requires a very specific character build) or spend a lot of Gold on the spell in the first place before spending a lot of gold AGAIN to use the damned thing. Sure it is powerful, but it can be kept in check by making it unreasonable for all but maybe the end of the campaign (depending how much gold you guys start kicking around).

Another ‘cost’ that you can incur is make them sacrifice something like Wounds or Stamina to make this work. If you make the caster sacrifice 5 wounds as a ‘material component’ to represent the strain they are putting on themselves to cast this spell, it makes it a LOT more difficult and dangerous to cast this spell. At best, I would think that a Tier V Elorii would only have that many wounds (I can’t see anyone getting a passive vigour of 4 before the end of the campaign, +1 for the ‘gritty rules’), which means that they risk sacrificing the character to do this. Sure, it becomes a mini-Kurenthe to an extent, but it will definitely make your average player think twice about casting it.

You could also reword the spells (similar to what Hurricane already suggests) which makes it almost impossible for the caster to escape the path of the terror that they have let loose.

Ultimately, though, you will always find SOMEONE who is willing to magic-nuke a city or do something else like this ‘for the lulz’. As a fan of the “Actions Have Consequences” mantra of Arcanis, I’d actually be interested in actually seeing someone DO this, and then have to live with what happens. Basically: Elorii Angstellios of Seremas decides to become a terrorist and wipe out Tralia using Earthquake. At the start, it seems like fun, but the Human nations know that the Elorii are the only ones who can cast this spell, or are able to capture him following the casting of the spell. As such, ALL the Human nations than gang up on Seremas, wiping out a huge number of their population. The Seremasi call upon Malfela and Elonbe’ to help, but both those nations go “Sorry, brother. This is YOUR mess. We cannot stand against ALL of the Humans if we join you, so we will let you die to preserve the species.” It (very well) might mess up the greater storyline, but 1) It would be an interesting turn, and 2) It would give a built-in consequence because EVERYONE would know who did it.

Reposting this to keep discussion at least summerized here for easy reference later:

To summarize my understanding of the Sorcerous Pacts as detailed in the document that you sent:

1) The ability to access these spells comes from a specific “Exotic” Talent, in these cases based on the breed of the Elorii in question.

2) These Exotic Talents are Tiered, which means that they all have 3 different Tiered benefits (Tier II, Tier III, and Tier V) abilities.

3) Each Tier provides two separate benefits that the Elorii, usually giving a choice of summons or access to two different spell abilities.

4) Each summon or spell ability requires the expenditure of 100 Gc PER casting of the Spell, with the costs being 100 Gc to ‘prep’ the ritual and an additional 10 Gc/Tier to ‘activate’ the ritual. For example: Bobellios spends monday performing the ritual and making appropriate sacrifices of 100 Gc worth of (insert shiny here). This then takes up their ‘binding spell’ slot and remains ‘prepped’ until they expend it. When they wish to trigger this spell, they must sacrifice the remaining 10/Tier Gc worth of materials to actually have the spell go off.

I have been giving this a thought. The main problem, as you pointed out earlier, was that there is nothing to stop Heroes from pooling resources and wiping out a city. (in the living campaign..home games..have at it). The resource, however, is not just X Gc….they are specific items. I think it can be fixed by limiting access to said items. (i.e. you need campaign certification of said item). In the case of the water domain, they need Fire Opals. Even if we limit access (so people could only get enough to cast the lower boons), people could still pool those together at T5 to cast the big one. So, why don’t we change the material component of the T5 boons to “Flawless Fire Opals”?

Thoughts?

Cody,

That’s fine, but it does not answer the crux of the question being asked:

How do I curtail the ability of players from destroying cities. I’m thinking I should power down these spells or replace them with something else.

Sorry, Henry. I was going to get to the suggestions but the computer was locking up so I posted what I had typed already lest I lose it to the computer void

1) As stated above, one option to keep people from (mechanically) using the city destroying powers is adjust the money-costs of the lower-tiered abilities. If you make the Tier II and III spells cheaper, than the players will be more likely to use them, using up their money in the process. Right now the monitary difference between Tier II ally for a single fight and world-shattering natural disaster is about the cost of an average set of armour, which means that people are more likely to not bother wasting their money on an ‘inferior’ ability. If you make the Tier II casting no more than 20 Gc, and the Tier III abilities no more than about 50 Gc, and keep the Tier V’s around 150 Gc, people are probably not bother to save for the big ones. Will this mean NOBODY will? No, but it reduces the attractiveness of saving up for it when the money can be put to more immediate use NOW, and if they can spend the same amount of money on 7 Save-our-ass summons instead of one “wouldn’t it be cool if. . .” things it means that they might actually USE the lower tier powers (which are severely overpriced for their benefits, IMHO).

2) You could possibly split these Pacts into different talents instead of a Tiered talent, with increasing prerequisites to qualify. Have them tied to their Bloodrank (number of Elorii Bloodline talents) as that means they are ‘closer’ to the Elemental plane from which the Pact is formed. This means it is mechanically more difficult to cast these spells, which means fewer players will be able to, reducing the population of people who CAN.

3) You can include a ‘banned spell’ in the Living campaign, similar to how things like Mage’s Disjunction were banned in the 3.x campaign. This is not an ideal, but it is the simplest way of doing things.

4) As said, you could make this Tier VI and include it only for flavour, but I would prefer having a spell banned than listed in a fashion I can NEVER get otherwise (players limited to Tier V).

5) As I stated in my first post, if you wanted to include physical damage to produce effects–such as having to sacrifice wounds–to cast a spell it would also limit the willingness to use these spells. In that example, have the Hurricane spell cost 5 wounds to represent channeling such amazing magical powers to manifest the powerful Elemental beings (or use their special abilities). Actually, I’d be more willing to use this than having a Gold Cost associated with it.

Possible idea:

Have the Heroes have to sacrifice 10 Gc/Tier of the appropriate shiny’s to have the spell prepped, but then to CAST spells of that much awesome power (channeling the magical energies through their frail bodies) they must sacrifice one wound that cannot be healed for 1 day/tier of the spell. In this case, they are using their own Elemental Life Essence as part of the spell, which is something they cannot simply heal with a “Mend Wounds” spell or with the “Stabilize” spell. As such, to cast a Tier III summoning spell (ie: the Megalodon one), they would have to sacrifice 3 wounds and 30 Gc to cast the spell ONCE. These wounds (and their penalties) could not be healed for 3 days during the adventure which limits how often they could cast the spell (in addition to the gold cost).

Using the Earthquake example, they would have to spend 50 Gc just to prep the spell, and then sacrifice 5 wounds which cannot be healed for 5 game days. If the caster only has 5 wounds, this means that the act of casting the spell will require them to make a death action roll. If they fail, they die and the spell is lost and not cast.

Honestly, I do not think we really CAN limit people wanting to use these powers. If we tie it entirely to gold, then people will save up to cast the spell as their ‘ultimate weapon.’ If you want to keep players from doing it, then you will need to put a far more character-threatening cost on it, like assigning flaws, dealing Wound Damage/Stamina Damage, or require them to give up an item of Exceptional or Legendary quality to do it. Money is money, after all, and therefore ultimately worthless to the PLAYER, if not the character, so it carries no consequence to them itself.

The other alternative would be to shrink the size of these spells to limit their area with Adaptations being used to increase area of effect. Have Hurricane be 1 squre mile, and add an additional square mile to the area for CTN +5 or something. This way, to make it 20 square miles they would need to make a CTN roll of whatever +95. This minimizes what they can do with the spell, while still allowing a mechanical means of expanding them to truly epic size.

How do I curtail the ability of players from destroying cities.

Henry, would my suggestion about the buildup of power being detected by the denizens of the city who would have a chance to respond be enough of a deterrent do you think? Yes, it would put at risk small towns, etc.

Another suggestion is to put in a cool-down period as with some other spells perhaps measured in days or weeks.

Requiring access to the spell by making it exotic is another way to curb or eliminate it’s use in the living campaign.

From a world/story perspective is tier V the point where anyone would wield that kind of power? If yes, what has traditionally kept those powerful enough to wield the energies from doing so?

At Tier V is it instead a ritual requiring multiple Tier V casters to achieve? This would cut down on the likelihood of a single player deciding to throw away their character in some grand gesture.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Hello,

What I’ve decided to do is require the talent Kurenthe to be a requirement. I’ll note in box text that Kurenthe is not a player option in the Legends of Arcanis campaign and that these spells are meant for GMs to use.

I could also bump them to Tier VI as well.

Hello everyone,

This is how I believe I can maintain the control needed for this spell.

Thoughts?

Tier V Spells

Tier V spells are more like events or plot devices than actual spells. Each of these elemental boon rituals can ravage entire regions, level cities and kill hundreds, if not thousands of beings. For this reason, the developers have made a conscious decision to make these rites have an additional cost: the sacrifice of an elorii’s soul though the use of Kurenthe’.
Most humans believe that Kurenthe’ is a death curse that an elorii may cast with devastating effect and that it was this curse that turned the lush forests that covered the Blessed Lands into the desolate region that it is today. This is only partially true and the elorii have maintained this myth to great effect.
Kurenthe’ is the ultimate fuel used in the casting of a ritual that needs more than the usual expenditure of effort. Much like human souls are used as a catalyst to raise a dying body into the undead, so too is Kurenthe’ used to power devastating spells and rituals, such as were used to turn the Blessed Lands into the wasteland it is today.
Rituals such as the Green or Tsunami require that an elorii perform Kurenthe’ for the spell to have any chance of being invoked, though the caster is not required to make this sacrifice – they need only have someone in close proximity that is willing to do so. This is a cost that many elorii, especially the more spiritual among them, feel is too great. Kurenthe’ in the eloran tongue means “ultimate sacrifice” and that is an apt description, for its invocation causes the essence of what that individual elorii is – her memories, life and very soul – is consumed by the spell, like kindling in a fire.
This is of tremendous significance to the elorii people as the soul never returns to the Orumar and can never be reborn in a new body. Eloran priests call this a great blasphemy against the Gods, specifically Belisarda as the soul of each elorii is said to have been crafted by Her when She breathed life into them. The fact that the death curse can only be uttered willingly and as a conscious act compounds the sacrilege against their most deeply held belief that each and every elorii is sacred. In addition, only those who souls burn brightest and have endured the most, normally the eldest and most experienced among the eloran race, can hope to invoke this rite.
In game terms, this is reflected by a Talent, Kurenthe’, that an elorii must have taken before being able to produce this effect (See below). Chronicler’s are urged to use caution if this talent is made available to your players, as their ability to significantly alter your campaign is greatly increased. For those playing the Legends of Arcanis shared campaign, this will not be an available player option.
One last possible brake to the use of these Tier V rituals is the fact that they are boons, granted by these otherworldly powers – unless they can somehow justify their use and the benefit that these elemental rulers may gain, the caster may be refused.

Kurenthe’ [Racial]
You may sacrifice your very essence to empower an effect or spell.
Requirement: Elorii
Benefit: You may utilize this Talent to empower a spell or to cause an effect adjudicated by the Chronicler.
Special: This Talent is available at Tier V only.