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- December 1, 2013 at 5:00 pm #252667AnonymousInactive
Just for comparison, based on what I said “roll weapon dice twice and drop the lowest” and without exploding dice and other modifiers you get:
d6 d8 d10 d12 2d4d1 2.21 2.54 2.88 3.21 2d6d1 1.99 2.24 2.49 2.74 2d8d1 1.86 2.06 2.26 2.46 2d10d1 1.78 1.94 2.11 2.28 2d12d1 1.71 1.86 2.00 2.14The difference between a d4 and a12 die weapons does decrease and the average damage increases as one would expect. I feel the increase on the average damage is too high for the lesser affect on the difference. So I would not use this. But this discussion has been interesting thanks.
December 3, 2013 at 1:50 am #252715AnonymousInactiveSo I’ve put together a spreadsheet to calculate “Damage per Tick” of various weapons. I’m not done yet and I’d like to get some feedback to make sure I’m considering things properly.
Here is a rundown of my inputs:
I’ve divided weapons into 4 categories (The names are just made up):
Small (Spd: 3, Damage: d4)
Medium (Spd: 4, Damage: d6)
Large (Spd: 5, Damage: d8)
Heavy (Spd: 6, Damage: d10)I’ve also assigned the following (Each can be changed in the calculations)
Attack Attribute Die: d10
Damage Attribute Die: d10
Skill Bonus: +6
Additional Weapon Attack/Damage Bonus Die:
Additional Weapon Attack/Damage Static Modifier:
Additional Weapon Speed Modifiers:Other values that matter include the following (Each can be changed)
Target’s Defense: 25
Number of Ticks: 12So based upon this and assuming an Average Action Roll of 11, I use the following calculations:
Attacks / 12 Ticks: This is how many attacks the weapon gets in one cycle of the clock. It’s computed by dividing 12 by the (modified) speed of the weapon.
Hit Percent: This is percent of the time that (on average) an attack with this weapon will hit. It’s based on the probability distribution of getting the number needed to hit the target’s Defense.
Hits / 12 Ticks: This is how many attacks will hit in one cycle of the clock on average. It’s computed by multiplying the Attacks / 12 Ticks by the Hit Percent.
Average Damage / Hit: This is the average damage of the weapon. It’s computed by taking the sum of the average of the Weapon Die, Damage Attribute Die, and any Die/Static Bonuses.
Damage / 12 Ticks: This is the cumulative damage the weapon does in one cycle of the clock. It’s computed by multiplying the Average Damage / Hit by the Hits / 12 Ticks.
Damage / Tick: This is the Damage Per Tick (goal value) of the weapon. This is computed by Dividing the Damage / 12 Ticks by 12.Sure, some of this could be done using 1 Tick instead of 12, but I like the whole clock cycle part.
Does anyone see any problems with this calculation?
John
December 3, 2013 at 2:28 am #252716AnonymousInactive@John, Like I was telling Cody, you have to factor in exceptional speeds. Every combat savvy character is going to either start with an exceptional weapon are aim to get one as quickly as possible. In the campaign, reach tier 2 from 1.1 has probably netted you an exceptional weapon. When I, or anyone, talks about faster weapons (your Normal)”dealing more damage” you should automatically assume we’re talking about exceptional weapons or having an exceptional weapon as soon as possible/eventually. Like when we talk about casters we’re talking characters with Arcane/Divine Spell Casting (ta) and not characters who just pick up Learn Spell. Exceptional weapon is the standard, and on weapon die and attribute alone Normal weapons out DPT. BUT, like I said, many factors at play.
PS – Footman’s Mace for the win!
December 3, 2013 at 2:45 am #252717AnonymousInactiveMy calculations allow for additional speed, weapon damage, or attack bonuses.
For instance, to model an Exceptional version of a Normal Weapon (Speed: 4, Damage: d6), just plug in a +1 to damage and -1 Speed in my spreadsheet.
I’m more wondering if I’ve missed anything in the calculation method.
Here’s a sample:
===================
Exceptional Normal Weapon: (Spd: 3 / Damage: d6+1)
All Dice: d10
Target Defense: 20
Combat Skill Bonus: +6Attacks / 12 Ticks: 4 (12 / 3)
Hit Percent: 28% (2d10 Probability of getting 14 and over)
Hits / 12 Ticks: 1.12 (4 * 28%)
Average Damage / Hit: 10 (3.5 + 1 + 5.5)
Damage / 12 Ticks: 11.20
Damage / Tick: 0.93
===================Compare that to
===================
Exceptional Heavy Weapon: (Spd: 5 / Damage: d10+1)
All Dice: d10
Target Defense: 20
Combat Skill Bonus: +6Attacks / 12 Ticks: 2.4 (12 / 5)
Hit Percent: 28% (2d10 Probability of getting 14 and over)
Hits / 12 Ticks: 0.67 (2.4 * 28%)
Average Damage / Hit: 12 (5.5 + 1 + 5.5)
Damage / 12 Ticks: 8.06
Damage / Tick: 0.67
===================Any problems with the math?
John
December 3, 2013 at 8:29 am #252722AnonymousInactiveOf course that’s with a d10 character with +6 skill. How do the stats look for a d8 character with +3 or simillar that might represent more of a starting character? Or my poor minions with +5 and d8 trying to hit PCs with avoidance 25
December 3, 2013 at 12:44 pm #252723AnonymousInactiveThe spreadsheet can be used with any numbers.
== Starting Character ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 17
Combat Skill Bonus: +3Damage / Tick: 0.65 (Small), 0.56 (Medium), 0.50 (Large), 0.47 (Heavy)
== d8 Minion ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 25
Combat Skill Bonus: +5Damage / Tick: 0.02 (All Weapons)
December 3, 2013 at 9:06 pm #252729AnonymousInactiveAre you factoring in your opponent’s AR? (I didn’t see you mention it in your previous posts.) Damage Dealt vs. Damage Received will alter your final numbers.
Scott
December 3, 2013 at 9:15 pm #252730AnonymousInactiveIn my final version I plan to add things like Maneuvers and AR, yes. I was mainly looking for feedback on the base calculations to make sure I was thinking of things correctly and hadn’t missed anything. Appreciate everyone having a look!
John
December 4, 2013 at 4:35 am #252741AnonymousInactiveHere’s a draft of what the sheet will eventually look like:
There will be up to 4 Weapons compared (or 2 sets of TWF).
Any early thoughts are welcome.
John
December 4, 2013 at 8:49 am #252744AnonymousInactiveThe spreadsheet can be used with any numbers.
== Starting Character ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 17
Combat Skill Bonus: +3Damage / Tick: 0.65 (Small), 0.56 (Medium), 0.50 (Large), 0.47 (Heavy)
== d8 Minion ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 25
Combat Skill Bonus: +5Damage / Tick: 0.02 (All Weapons)
That pretty much Tallies with what I’ve found: The minions just don’t deal noteworthy damage to the fighters
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December 4, 2013 at 12:49 pm #252745AnonymousInactiveThat pretty much Tallies with what I’ve found: The minions just don’t deal noteworthy damage to the fighters
Hopefully a minion going against a hero with Avoidance 25 has about a +10 to their combat skill though.
John
December 4, 2013 at 10:22 pm #252773AnonymousInactiveIn my experience, Minions can be the most dangerous part of the combat, as there’s just so *many* of them. Even if they’re below the curve, they have so many attacks some are bound to get through and explode the damage.
A poor initiative roll from an area damage caster (if you have one) can accentuate the danger.
December 4, 2013 at 10:23 pm #252774AnonymousInactiveMost of my “Wounds” from Crits have come from minions.
December 5, 2013 at 12:45 am #252781AnonymousInactiveSo I discovered a bad typo in my computations. It wasn’t adding in the use of the Prowess Die for attacks. The new numbers for the above would be:
The spreadsheet can be used with any numbers.
== Starting Character ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 17
Combat Skill Bonus: +3Damage / Tick: 1.49 (Small), 1.28 (Medium), 1.15 (Large), 1.07 (Heavy)
== d8 Minion ==
All Dice: d8
Target Defense: 25
Combat Skill Bonus: +5Damage / Tick: 0.35 (Small), 0.30 (Medium), 0.27 (Large), 0.25 (Heavy)
December 6, 2013 at 12:28 am #252837AnonymousInactiveOkay I’m done with the first (Draft and Beta) version of my Weapon Comparison. I’d love folks to play with it, point out mistakes or enhancements.
Weapon Comparison Chart – Version 1.0 (by Harliquinn) [Updated: 12/2013]
A few things:
1) Limited to 4 weapons
2) You can compare TWF techniques (Weapons 1/2 become your TWF)
3) The “Maneuver” Attack Type doesn’t do anything yet but I hope to be able to at least compute damage / tick by alternating basic attack/maneuver.
4) You can only enter data in Yellow Cells (You can unprotect the sheets no password if you want)[EDIT] Okay I just added a manual (up to) 36 Tick Clock Simulator. You can select which weapon you attack with at each tick, specify any attack or damage modifications and see what you’re overall damage per tick is for that timeframe. It’s only an approximation but should allow you to compare weapons with various maneuvers more accurately (but manually).
Thanks!
John
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