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- March 21, 2014 at 11:38 pm #151040AnonymousInactive
How does:
Q: Is the martial archetype the only archetype that doesn’t need to spend a talent to learn to use any shield?
A: No, Martial archetype characters learn all of their nation’s shields during character creation. Expert archetype may also learn to use shields from their “any one other weapon of choice” selection.Interact with:
Q: Does armor training cover the use of a shield as a weapon? Does Weapon training cover its use as armor?
A: Armor Proficiency: Shields in addition to its benefits grants Weapon Training: Shield. Weapon Training: Shield in addition to its benefits grants Armor Prof: Shields.So an Expert can learn Weapon Training: Shield because it’s a weapon? However, when choosing National Weapons, does shield not count? Just asking for clarification for me personally not that anything needs to go into the errata unless it’s different.
John
March 21, 2014 at 11:48 pm #260665AnonymousInactiveThis actually has a bit more implication than you think. If a shield is a national weapon then martial archetypes end up with weapon mastery 1 with it automatically, getting both weapon and armor prof and each of those granting the other.
March 22, 2014 at 1:38 am #260669AnonymousInactive@archangel yah no
@ John … opps my bad your right, I thought expert said light national weapon
March 22, 2014 at 1:17 pm #260686AnonymousInactive@archangel yah no
@ John … opps my bad your right, I thought expert said light national weapon
I didn’t say that was intentional but it is the way it would be seen with the errata saying Armor training gives you weapon training and vice versa. And we all know by now that if you have weapon training and get it again it becomes weapon mastery. At this point I’d prefer the two talents get merged into one called Shield training to avoid just these kinds of issues.March 23, 2014 at 3:31 am #260730AnonymousInactiveI seriously don’t see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.
March 23, 2014 at 5:16 pm #260751AnonymousInactiveI seriously don’t see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.
I do intend to tackle the “Shield Issue” but it’s going to be a bot more involved then a little bit of errata.
for now… martial characters do not start with weapon focus in all shields as you can not take weapon training in shields, the only way to learn shield use is though Armor Proficiency: Shields.
March 23, 2014 at 7:08 pm #260760AnonymousInactiveI seriously don’t see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.
I do intend to tackle the “Shield Issue” but it’s going to be a bot more involved then a little bit of errata.
for now… martial characters do not start with weapon focus in all shields as you can not take weapon training in shields, the only way to learn shield use is though Armor Proficiency: Shields.
If this is changing back to not work off Weapon Training (Shield), you need to adjust this:
Q: Is the martial archetype the only archetype that doesn’t need to spend a talent to learn to use any shield?
A: No, Martial archetype characters learn all of their nation’s shields during character creation. Expert archetype may also learn to use shields from their “any one other weapon of choice” selection.John
March 23, 2014 at 8:15 pm #260766AnonymousInactiveThis actually has a bit more implication than you think. If a shield is a national weapon then martial archetypes end up with weapon mastery 1 with it automatically, getting both weapon and armor prof and each of those granting the other.
Which is why I made the changes I did
read what I did with weapon training
March 23, 2014 at 8:36 pm #260767AnonymousInactiveThis is what’s currently in the errata:
Q: Does armor training cover the use of a shield as a weapon? Does Weapon training cover its use as armor?
A: Armor Proficiency: Shields in addition to its benefits grants Weapon Training: Shield. Weapon Training: Shield in addition to its benefits grants Armor Prof: Shields.Q: If an Archetype, Background, or Path grants me Weapon Training (Any) or Weapon Training (Any National) may I chose an Armor Training: Shields?
A: Yes, and in the case of national you must choose an appropriate shield of course.It appears that you can still take Weapon Training: Shield if you’re offered a national choice during archetype or background.
John
March 23, 2014 at 8:48 pm #260772AnonymousInactiveSo with the weapon training change the only way to gain weapon training for shields is when it is given directly by another source, such as armor training shields or a path.
March 23, 2014 at 9:07 pm #260776AnonymousInactiveSo with the weapon training change the only way to gain weapon training for shields is when it is given directly by another source, such as armor training shields or a path.
The errata is not written that way currently.
March 24, 2014 at 6:05 pm #260831AnonymousInactiveQ: Does armor training cover the use of a shield as a weapon? Does Weapon training cover its use as armor?
A: Armor Proficiency: Shields in addition to its benefits grants Weapon Training: Shield. Weapon Training: Shield in addition to its benefits grants Armor Prof: Shields.
Page 187 (Errata)
Armor Proficiency, Shield [Combat], change the talent’s benefit as shown in BoldBenefit: You may now utilize shields without penalty. You may also start to acquire shield Weapon Tricks and qualify for talents as if you acquired Weapon Training (pg. 212) with all shields.
Page 212 (Clarification)
Weapon Training [Combat]
At the end of the 1st paragraph under benefit add the following.You cannot chose weapon training in shields, for shield training see Armor Proficiency: Shields.
So please read all three of those together. The third one seems to conflict, but that could just be my reading.
Anyway so, if you can’t take weapon training: Shields… how do you get increase its level of weapon mastery when you get, weapon training (any) from a path. So does it not work on shields and you have to take the talent Weapon Mastery: Shield, entirely separate?
What about the Holy Champions of Hurrian? I believe they get shield mastery as a talent. If they started out as Divine they don’t know how to use a shield.
Thanks
March 24, 2014 at 6:18 pm #260834AnonymousInactivePage 212 (Clarification)
Weapon Training [Combat]
At the end of the 1st paragraph under benefit add the following.You cannot chose weapon training in shields, for shield training see Armor Proficiency: Shields.
Maybe change this to be:
If you gain Weapon Training with a Shield, you instead gain, for the particular shield type, Armor Proficiency, Shields if you do not have it or Weapon Mastery if you do.
Although that then might again need a clarification for Martial that they do not gain Weapon Training and Armor Prof with shields (eg ending up with free Weapon Mastery). I would hope nobody would interpret the rules that way but you never know…
March 26, 2014 at 1:52 am #261001AnonymousInactiveSo with the weapon training change the only way to gain weapon training for shields is when it is given directly by another source, such as armor training shields or a path.
The errata is not written that way currently.
That was based on Pete’s last post, not the current wording. I just figured he was going to change it to say as much.March 26, 2014 at 1:56 am #261003AnonymousInactiveSo with the weapon training change the only way to gain weapon training for shields is when it is given directly by another source, such as armor training shields or a path.
The errata is not written that way currently.
That was based on Pete’s last post, not the current wording. I just figured he was going to change it to say as much.thank you btw
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