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- This topic has 11 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 8 months ago by Anonymous.
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- January 19, 2016 at 11:53 pm #152127AnonymousInactive
Looking at Steel Dragon closely, I have to ask why it requires TWF? All of the abilities are solely around the Steel Whip and using TWF is pretty much useless (Steel Whip is not light so -3 on both attacks to hit and Steel Dragon is a Stance so you can’t use Balanced Blades to reduce it).
January 26, 2016 at 2:27 am #271132AnonymousInactiveWell, under the “Chosen Weapons” section of that fighting style, it states that the style is designed around using a steel whip and ” a smaller, off-handed light weapon”.
January 26, 2016 at 4:21 am #271136AnonymousInactiveYes but nothing in the style itself actually makes use of the “smaller, off-handed light weapon” and, since the steel whip is not light, you get the worse penalty for TWF (-3 instead of -2 plus can’t use Balanced Blades to reduce it).
Mechanically, TWF (and training/skill in the light balanced weapon) is nothing but a talent/skill tax. The most effective use of Steel Dragon is to never actually use TWF or the light sword (unless you’re using it just to eat away at recovery since its speed is probably faster than the steel whip).
February 4, 2016 at 11:02 pm #271385AnonymousInactiveThe Tier IV ability is the capstone and uses TWF
Tier IV: Once per scene, while in this stance, when you successfully knock someone prone with your steel whip you may follow up with your off-hand as a basic Free Strike against that target
February 4, 2016 at 11:22 pm #271389AnonymousInactiveExcept that doesn’t even use TWF – it just uses a second weapon (I assume this is to bypass the big TWF penalty which would more than negate the TE bonus to hit (for prone)).
I suppose part of my issue may be that I’ve never been very happy with Arcanis TWF rules. For a cost of two talents, you have a -1 to hit and are in a stance (so you can’t use any other stance such as Defense, Forward, or any fighting style). That’s a really high cost for the benefits.
February 4, 2016 at 11:30 pm #271391AnonymousInactiveTwo-Weapon Fighting isn’t a stance, as it is a Simple Combat Maneuver (ARPG pg. 312).
Two-Weapon Fighting (ta) isn’t a stance, but is a simple Combat Talent (ARPG pg. 211).
Steel Dragon IS a Stance, and cannot be combined with another Stance.
February 4, 2016 at 11:31 pm #271392AnonymousInactiveIt uses a weapon in your off hand, meaning TWF.
John
February 5, 2016 at 1:39 am #271397AnonymousInactiveTwo-Weapon Fighting isn’t a stance, as it is a Simple Combat Maneuver (ARPG pg. 312).
Two-Weapon Fighting (ta) isn’t a stance, but is a simple Combat Talent (ARPG pg. 211).
Steel Dragon IS a Stance, and cannot be combined with another Stance.
But Steel Whip is a non-light weapon making the penalty -3 for doing TWF with it. Even adding in Balanced Blades (which is a stance) only decreases it to -2.
TWF is marginal until you add in Balanced Blades and/or Spinning Strikes. Fighting styles effectively remove Balanced Blades as an option since both are stances (leaving you with the damage increase from TWF and Spinning Strikes but the -2 or -3 to hit on both attacks (which is significant)). If I recall correctly, someone ran the numbers and found that for average TNs, it works out to around 5% so that’s 10% or 15% less likely to hit.
February 5, 2016 at 1:55 am #271400AnonymousInactiveThat’s the price you pay for learning a Fighting Style. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
This is not an issue if your non-whip is the light weapon.
Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat]
You suffer a -2 to hit with both attacks (with a further -1 if one of the weapons is not light). Once both attacks are resolved, increase your Clock by the slower weapon’s Speed +2.Having the talent, it does not matter what order or weapon you attack with; just that one of the weapons is not light. Depending upon the combination, the whip can be designated as the off-hand weapon without any further penalties.
Steel Whip + Sidesword:
1. Steel Dragon + TWF/Spinning Strike = -2 Whip, -2 Balanced (Stance until next action)
2. Balanced Blades + TWF/Spinning Strike = -1 Whip, -1 Balanced (Stance until next action)There is nothing stopping you swapping between Stances each time your action comes up.
February 5, 2016 at 3:24 am #271409AnonymousInactiveThat’s the price you pay for learning a Fighting Style. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
This is not an issue if your non-whip is the light weapon.
Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat]
You suffer a -2 to hit with both attacks (with a further -1 if one of the weapons is not light). Once both attacks are resolved, increase your Clock by the slower weapon’s Speed +2.Having the talent, it does not matter what order or weapon you attack with; just that one of the weapons is not light. Depending upon the combination, the whip can be designated as the off-hand weapon without any further penalties.
Steel Whip + Sidesword:
1. Steel Dragon + TWF/Spinning Strike = -2 Whip, -2 Balanced (Stance until next action)
2. Balanced Blades + TWF/Spinning Strike = -1 Whip, -1 Balanced (Stance until next action)There is nothing stopping you swapping between Stances each time your action comes up.
Huh. I think I’ve been misreading and misplaying the TWF penalty. I was always reading “if one of the weapons is not light” as “if either one of the weapons is not light” (which is where I came up with -3 for Steel Dragon). If your reading is correct (and I think it probably is) then it would only be -2 as long as the off-hand weapon is light, That “extra” +1 does make it better.
February 6, 2016 at 3:54 pm #271431AnonymousInactiveOnly 1 weapon of the two weapon pair needs to be light in order to suffer the lesser penalties. This was clarified in a very early errata.
John
February 6, 2016 at 5:30 pm #271434AnonymousInactiveOnly 1 weapon of the two weapon pair needs to be light in order to suffer the lesser penalties. This was clarified in a very early errata.
Apparently my errata memory has been flaky lately. You are correct that this is clarified in the errata (though it looks like new errata in v4 (or later) as it is in red in v4.3).
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