Martial Techniques

I think this is a bad idea to add in at this point without reviewing techniques as a whole and making adjustments so there are clear ‘paths’ for all weapon types and combat styles. Does this include knowing tricks? Or only specifically taking a martial technique? I think this may just say to all non-martial builds: You’re not expected to get the higher Tier Techniques.

I may be in the minority but I think this is a ‘big change’ to introduce that affects too much without some further discussion and inclusion in the “character building’ changes talked about.

John

I just think this is a big character building change that might be better served going in with the overall Character Building update.

John

Not to side with the vals, but there are a lot of crappy val powers and val powers that don’t fit your character build. I can understand not wanted to waste a talent. It especially gets rough with the tier 3 and 4 val bloodline powers considering you only have a single choice.

Examples: Any and all bloodline power that requires a skill check vs defense. What if I don’t have that skill or I’m not an expert? This talent is useless to me.

If I’m not a shapeshifty Dellenov, why would I want to take The Primal Self at Tier 4?
If someone was so inclined as to make a non-melee Nierite (such as a Divine Nierite) what use is Puissant Warrior to them?

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Same for Martial Techniques. Why force people to take Martial Techniques they aren’t going to use? Arii is skipping tier 4 martial techniques. There is nothing that her TWF and mobility character would want in that tier, if she can’t skip tier 4, then she’ll probably just stop at tier 3.

I can see a lot of melee players wanted to skill tier 4 maneuvers. Overpower is really good, but only if you are okay with that 12 avoidance. Devastating Blow is easily skip-able if you have access to mighty swing or are a Quickness based character, and Trail of Bodies depends on your character’s style and might.

My archer build was going to skip tier tier martial techniques Snap Shot being lack luster.

Not to side with the vals, but there are a lot of crappy val powers and val powers that don’t fit your character build. I can understand not wanted to waste a talent. It especially gets rough with the tier 3 and 4 val bloodline powers considering you only have a single choice.

Examples: Any and all bloodline power that requires a skill check vs defense. What if I don’t have that skill or I’m not an expert? This talent is useless to me.

If I’m not a shapeshifty Dellenov, why would I want to take The Primal Self at Tier 4?
If someone was so inclined as to make a non-melee Nierite (such as a Divine Nierite) what use is Puissant Warrior to them?

because it’s in your blood… you don’t have much of a choice in the matter..

I’m 5’2″ that’s the last thing I wanted to be.

bloodline powers are not about rules, they are a story element that defines the bloodline…. defines the race.. like dark-kin looking like infernals.

heck in the d20 system you HAD to take all the bloodline powers to get to the higher ones.. you had to take both Tier 1 to get a Tier 2…. I’m much nicer.. I require only one.

Same for Martial Techniques. Why force people to take Martial Techniques they aren’t going to use? Arii is skipping tier 4 martial techniques. There is nothing that her TWF and mobility character would want in that tier, if she can’t skip tier 4, then she’ll probably just stop at tier 3.

I can see a lot of melee players wanted to skill tier 4 maneuvers. Overpower is really good, but only if you are okay with that 12 avoidance. Devastating Blow is easily skip-able if you have access to mighty swing or are a Quickness based character, and Trail of Bodies depends on your character’s style and might.

My archer build was going to skip tier tier martial techniques Snap Shot being lack luster.

and you have made by point…. just like casters who wish they can just chose a Tier IV spell and dislike the tier IIV spells… sometimes.. it’s the price of power.

when I learned fencing, I learned moves that I never used.. because they were steeping stones, they were base techniques that allowed me to understand the advanced ones.

Ponto Reverso is almost impossible to pull off against anyone worth their salt, but it teaches you to break the line, to move to the side and strike from an unexpected angel.

Also, When you take spell casting tier 2, you don’t actually have to take any Teir 2 spells. You can skip tier 2 spells.

I’m good for the van ones, but I’m bias, the elorii can’t skip bloodline powers.

I think the errata should be changed to something like.

All val bloodline talents of Tiers 2 or higher, gain the requirement of a val bloodline talent of one tier lower.

I’m opposed to the martial technique change.

but for martial techniques im less convinced, but i see where your coming from, its going to make things a lot harder for a lot of characters but i think it will keep the non martial characters more in check on their power level and thats probably a good thing

Correct…

Right now an expert can pick and chose the best maneuvers… martial has a advancement that forces them to pick maneuvers.

what this does, in essence, is allow martial heroes to shine a little brighter

What do you mean “Best maneuvers”? I’ve thought of it as “Picking the maneuvers that are useful to my character build and concept.”

John