Animal Companions

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  • February 20, 2014 at 2:45 pm #150740
    Anonymous
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    1)Should the War Dog have Scent Trait? From the perception description it seems that it was supposed to.
    2) Should the Alpha wolf have Notable Attack (Bite) Which would account for it’s +2 Damage.
    3) Why does the Alpha wolf have +5 Attack and +5 skills bonus when the War Dog has only +3 Attack and +3 skill bonus? Is this correct?
    4) The Order of the Phoenix Mastiff has no skills assigned. Should it have the same skills as both the Alpha wolf and the War dog? (Athletics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception (no +5 since it doesn’t have scent) Tracking) If not, what skills should it have.
    5) Since you can only get the Mastiff with your Tier 2 Path does your Loyal Companion Tier start at level 2 (Sort of like the way the infernal servant errata states.)

    When you first choose this bloodline power, you gain it as a Tier 3 Talent.
    Page: 233 (Errata)
    Under Infernal Servant change the following sentence to the end of the Benefits entry: You may take the higher tiers of Loyal Companion in order to further improve upon your Infernal’s stats, regardless of the talent’s requirements. If you already possess a Loyal Companion that companion is lost and replaced with your Infernal. With the exception of matching maximum stamina, the infernal gains none of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Loyal Companion benefits.
    6) When I am finished with the guide, who do I submit it to, to try and get it approved?
    Thanks in advance
    Pete Kost

    This is a list of the Animal Companions so far. Did I miss any?
    Dog, War
    Elite (Tier 1) d8, Med, Beast
    Avoidance Fortitude Discipline
    17 19 14
    St (Wo): 35 (2) Pace: 30’
    AR: 0 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +3 (a) d8 (d8) +2
    Speed: 5, Range: Melee
    Grab (see Ravenous)
    Talents: Die Hard (d8+2), Ravenous
    Traits: Notable Attack (Bite)
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    Skills (+3, 18, 15)
    Athletics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception (at +5 see scent) Tracking
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5

    Wolf, Alpha
    Common [Ex Specimen] (Tier 1.5) d8, Med, Beast
    Avoidance Fortitude Discipline
    19 18 14
    St (Wo): 26 (2) Pace: 40’
    AR: 0 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +5 (a) d8 (d8) +2
    Speed: 5, Range: Melee
    Grab (see Ravenous)
    Talents: Wolf Pack Tactics, Ravenous, Monstrous Maneuver (Take Down)
    Traits: Scent
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    Skills (+5, 21, 16)
    Athletics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception (at +5 see scent) Tracking
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5

    It looks like the Alpha Wolf might already have the Exceptional Specimen Variation.
    That would account for the +2 in all skills.
    Can you still take an Alpha Wolf as a Heirloom Animal?
    What happens if you take a Wolf as a Heirloom Animal?
    Do you get to again add the Exceptional Specimen Variation pluses?
    Or by taking the wolf do you get what amounts to a free Heirloom Animal Talent.

    Exceptional Specimen Variation Tier Value: + 0.5
    Avoidance +1
    Fortitude +1
    Discipline +1
    Stamina: +5 Skills: +2
    Wounds: +1 Qualities: +1
    Special: Choose one of the following: An additional Quality, Die Bump to the creature’s base die (maximum of d12), or an additional 6 Stamina.

    Mastiff (Current)
    Mastiff Elite (Tier 2) d10, Med, Beast
    Avoidance 22 Fortitude 21 Discipline 21
    St (Wo): 30 (2) Pace: 40’ AR: 3 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +6 (a) d8 (d10) Speed: 5, Range: Melee
    Talents: Die Hard, Ravaneous, Monstrous Charge, Natural Armor, Toughness
    and Tracking
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    (Although the Text states it is changed to (Weak Characteristic: Mental)
    Skills (+6, 21, 14)
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5

    Mastiff (Proposed)
    Mastiff Elite (Tier 2) d10, Med, Beast
    Avoidance 22 Fortitude 21 Discipline 21
    St (Wo): 30 (2) Pace: 40’ AR: 3 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +6 (a) d8 (d10) Speed: 5, Range: Melee
    Talents: Die Hard, Ravaneous, Natural Armor, Toughness
    Traits: Monstrous Charge
    Flaws: Weak Characteristic: Mental
    Skills (+6, 21, 14) ) Athletics , Melee: Unarmed, Perception , Tracking
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5

    Wild Cat Elite (Tier 1) d8, Med, Beast
    Avoidance 18 Fortitude 17 Discipline 14
    St (Wo): 35 (2) Pace: 40’ AR: 0 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +3 (a) d4 (d8) Speed: 3, Range: Melee
    Claws: +4 (a) d6 (d8) Speed: 4, Range: Melee
    Talents: Quick, Weapon Mastery (Claws)
    Traits: Monstrous Charge
    Skills (+3, 19, 16) Athletics, Acrobatics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception, Stealth
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5
    Winged Raptor Common (Tier 1) d6, Med, Beast
    Avoidance 17 Fortitude 19 Discipline 14
    St (Wo): 20 (1) Pace: 10’, Fly 60’ (Agile) AR: 0 Initiative: 2d10
    Attacks: Talon: +3 (a) d4 (d6) Speed: 3, Range: Melee
    Manuver. Martial Maneuvers: Passing Strike
    Talents: Quick, Owl Eyed, Wary
    Skills (+3, 17, 14) Acrobatics, Athlectics, Melee (Unarmed)
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.0

    Hawk Common (Tier 1.0) d6, Small Hawk Beast
    Avoidance 19 Fortitude 15 Discipline 17
    St (Wo): 25 (1) Pace: 10’ Fly: 60’ (Agile) AR 0 Initiative: 2d10
    Attacks: Talon: +3 (a) d4 (d8) +2 Speed: 3, Range: Melee (Quick quality)
    Beak: +3 (a) d4 (d6) Speed: 3, Range: Melee
    Manuver. Martial Technique: Passing Strike
    Talents: Quick, Owl Eyed, Wary
    Traits: Notable Attack (Talons), Powerful Attribute (Quickness)
    Flaws: Small
    Skills: (+3, 17, 14) Athletics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.0

    Light Warhorse Common (Tier 1) d8, Large, Beast
    Avoidance 18 Fortitude 20 Discipline 16
    St (Wo): 31 (1) Pace: 60’ AR (n): 0 (2) Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Hoof: +3 (a) d6 (d10) Speed: 3, Range: Melee
    Talents: Toughness , Wary
    Traits: Beast of Burden, Natural Armor, Powerful Attribute (Might)
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    Skills: (+3, 18, 15) Athletics, Melee (Unarmed), Mettle, Perception
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.0

    Heavy Warhorse Elite (Tier 2) d10, Large, Beast
    Avoidance 17 Fortitude 20 Discipline 16
    St (Wo): 41 (2) Pace: 50’ AR (n): 0 (2) Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Hoof: +3 (a) d6 (d12) Speed: 3, Range: Melee
    Talents: Toughness, Wary
    Traits: Beast of Burden, Natural Armor, Powerful Attribute (Might), Trample
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    Skills: (+3, 19, 16) Athletics, Melee (Unarmed), Mettle, Perception
    Encounter Tier Value: 2.0

    Lesser Elemental Common [Chosen Element] (Tier 1) d8, Med, Elemental
    Avoidance 17 Fortitude 15 Discipline 14
    17 15 14
    St (Wo): 26 (1) Pace: 30’(See Variation) AR: 3 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Unarmed: +3 (a) d8 (d6) Speed: 5, Range: Melee Damage type by Element
    Talents: Toughness and as per Elemental Variation
    Traits: Natural Armor and as per Elemental Variation
    Flaws: Vulnerability: Opposed Element, Bestial Intellect
    Skills (+3, 19, 16) Melee: (Unarmed), plus skills granted by Elemental
    Variation below
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.0
    Air
    Avoidance Fortitude Discipline
    +1 +0 +1
    Air Elementals gain
    Pace: Fly (Perfect) 20’
    Talents: Quick, Uncanny Reaction
    Skills: Acrobatics, Range (Marksman)
    Attack: May use unarmed attack to attack to a range of 30’ utilizing Range (Marksman)

    Infernal Servant [Racial]
    Many of Sarish’s children possess an infernal Servant, a slave
    that is bound to their will.
    Requirements: Hero Tier IV, val’Mehan
    Benefit: You gain the Loyal Companion Talent (pg. 200).
    Instead of an animal, you possess a Common Tier III
    Infernal (Devil) of your choosing. When you first choose this
    bloodline power, you gain it as a Tier 3 Talent.
    You may take higher tiers of Loyal Companion in order to further
    improve upon your Infernal’s stats.regardless of the talent’s requirements. If you already possess a Loyal Companion that companion is lost and replaced with your Infernal. With the exception of matching maximum stamina, the infernal gains none of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Loyal Companion benefits.

    Page: 233 (Errata)
    Under Infernal Servant change the following sentence to the end of the Benefits entry: You may take the higher tiers of Loyal Companion in order to further improve upon your Infernal’s stats, regardless of the talent’s requirements. If you already possess a Loyal Companion that companion is lost and replaced with your Infernal. With the exception of matching maximum stamina, the infernal gains none of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Loyal Companion benefits.

    February 20, 2014 at 3:06 pm #257086
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I have been following both of these threads, and I am really confused by what your asking, It seems like your missing the lead up to the questions your asking, perhaps you could break your questions apart and give the full scenario (and maybe some examples) ?

    February 20, 2014 at 4:32 pm #257096
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    It would be simpler if each question was its own thread.

    February 20, 2014 at 5:33 pm #257110
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Ok, here is the first one. When I get an answer to that I will try the second one.
    1)Should the War Dog have Scent Trait? From the perception description it seems that it was supposed to.

    Dog, War Elite (Tier 1) d8, Med, Beast
    Avoidance Fortitude Discipline
    17 19 14
    St (Wo): 35 (2) Pace: 30’
    AR: 0 Initiative: 3d10
    Attacks: Bite: +3 (a) d8 (d8) +2 Speed: 5, Range: Melee
    Grab (see Ravenous)
    Talents: Die Hard (d8+2), Ravenous
    Traits: Notable Attack (Bite)
    Flaws: Bestial Intellect
    Skills (+3, 18, 15) !!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Athletics, Melee: Unarmed, Perception (at +5 see scent) Tracking (Scent is referenced here)
    Encounter Tier Value: 1.5

    February 20, 2014 at 5:41 pm #257112
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    For question 3, there’s a half tier difference between the war dog (1.0) and tbe wolf (1.5).

    With a sweep of his hat,

    Paul

    February 20, 2014 at 7:15 pm #257114
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks Paul,
    I am trying to put together a guide for creating and advancing Loyal Animal companions.
    To help other people (and myself) understand what templates to use, and consolidate the rules from the various official books into one place.
    If there is already one out there, then if someone can point me to it, I can quit working on it.
    Just trying to help.

    My original question was (In a different thread) what wolf template should be used for a wolf Loyal Companion.
    I was told the Alpha wolf. But the Alpha wolf seems to be a step above the War Dog companion.
    It appears that the Alpha wolf already has the Exceptional Specimen Variation that you would get if you took your wolf as a heirloom.

    Thus my other questions about a wolf Loyal companion from the above post
    Cut from above
    (It looks like the Alpha Wolf might already have the Exceptional Specimen Variation.
    That would account for the +2 in all skills.
    Can you still take an Alpha Wolf as a Heirloom Animal?
    What happens if you take a Wolf as a Heirloom Animal?
    Do you get to again add the Exceptional Specimen Variation pluses?
    Or by taking the wolf do you get what amounts to a free Heirloom Animal Talent.)

    Pete Kost

    February 20, 2014 at 7:50 pm #257116
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    well the simple answer is unless you have access to buy a wolf you cant take it as a loyal companion.

    loyal companion does not grant you the animal.

    February 20, 2014 at 7:59 pm #257118
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    btw I said it before..

    we don’t “approve” guides, but once your done, if would like me to give it the once over, send it my way

    February 20, 2014 at 8:04 pm #257119
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    btw I said it before..

    we don’t “approve” guides, but once your done, if would like me to give it the once over, send it my way

    So, you’re saying there’s a *chance*?

    February 20, 2014 at 8:23 pm #257122
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    ok let me break this down to what i think is getting asked:

    “You have created a special bond with an animal you already own.”

    Right so unless you can A purchase it (Ie Table 2-34 ARPG) or own it from another source, taking this talent does nothing for you.

    Table 2-34
    Dog, common hunting -75sc
    Dog, guard or war – 1Gc
    Eagle or Falcon – 50Gc
    Horse(s) 75Sc – 20Gc

    Note Taking Heirloom Animal Needs official clarification (Pete you see this) on what animals can be taken with heirloom, horses and probably dogs easily fall into this category and are accepted by *most* judges, but any other animal might get dismissed out of hand depending on how a judges sees it.

    This means, there is no way to get wolf as a loyal companion in the shared world campaign at character creation. It should be noted there are way to get them they just aren’t covered by the shared world campaign, and i presume that’s what we are talking about here.

    responding to #1,2 and 3 Those are the stats, I would take them exactly as presented unless there is errata put out for them (I don’t think there is any currently, after doing a quick check of the FAQ) Yeah war dogs should have scent, but since were looking at it the bonus from scent has dropped from +5 to +3 in the bestiary

    #4 the Order of the Phoenix’s Skills are assigned on Page 12 of the Order of the Phoenix’s document, they are “(+6, 21,14) Melee: Unarmed, Athletics, Tracking”

    #5 nope, this kind of situation is pretty common in having to make up Tiers of talents, look at the talents granted by the Verdant champion (Min Tier 2 path, talents go from Tier 1-5), there are ways to get loyal companion more than once per tier, but I’ll leave those as a mystery, but keep in mind that your not allowed to take a tiered talent more than once per tier.

    your list of animals:
    Mastiff is only for Knights of the Phoenix
    Wolves aren’t accessible, see my comment above
    Wild Cats are only for Val’Dellov’s that take the right bloodline power
    I don’t know where you are taking elementals from, but afaik they aren’t allowable for loyal companions.
    Infernal servants are pretty clearly outlined

    February 20, 2014 at 10:53 pm #257136
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Wow Josh, I missed that. With the prices I am seeing for animals, very few backgrounds will be able to afford an Loyal companion (at character creation at least) unless they take a Heirloom talent with an Animal as their Heirloom.

    Wolfs are so prominent in the rules and examples, I find it hard to believe that there is no way to get one.

    1,2,3 ) don’t really matter now does it.
    4) I have no clue how I missed the skills for the Mastiff \":(\" Thanks

    5) The only way I can think of getting Loyal Companion twice in one tier is to Take the talent, then take a path that has the talent. Which means I have to wait until tier 3 before my mastiff can have the same stamina as me.
    But doesn’t the infernal servants rules kind of form a precedent for how to handle getting a loyal companion later in tiers? That is how I would handle it in court \":)\"

    The air elemental I think is a elorii spell and I put it in only for completeness.

    This is why we need a guide, but while I was once enthusiastic about putting one together and had it 90% done, now I hardly see a reason. \":(\" Need to dump or redesign 2 of my characters.

    I love this game, but why in the world are we making things so complicated.

    February 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm #257138
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    SIMPLE. BLAME ME.

    In the last campaign Summoning and Companions where a real problem. Personally I played a Druid/Sorcerer that had an animal companion attack goose, a Raven Familiar, two pet normal geese, plus an almost unlimited ability to summon more. I’d shape change into a goose and lead the whole attack wing with the raven using my Handle Animal skill ranks to command the second flight. I used the stats of an Eagle for the geese, and just reskinned them. I called the gaggle the Paldarian Air Corps, and frankly that is what it was. My own personal Air Force. At one encounter I managed to field some 30 attack geese on the battlematt plus an nearly limitless ability to replace them. It was perfectly legal under the 3.x rules in place at the time. But in hindsight wholly abusive.

    Think about the math for a second. With each goose getting three attacks per round, I had over 90 attacks to complete in a given round in the above example. The other players, got one or two attacks in the same time period.

    While I have no direct confirmation that I was named specifically when writing the new rules set, limited the power and presence of summoned or owned creatures was clearly to eliminate abuses of the 3.x system I took advantage of. Namely FLIGHT, Animal Companions, Summoning, excessive wealth and Magic Items.

    If you step back and look at the new system, there is one stark contrast between A:RPG and the 3.x rules, in A:RPG

    \":arrow:\" it isn’t about what your character owns it is about what your character does.

    Animals are just another form of equipment. By making them hard to obtain, it compels the player with the animals keep his character first, and his pets second.

    February 20, 2014 at 11:57 pm #257144
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    well I would say the system is designed to discourage this kind of character… and thats a good good thing.

    so after you become a Knight of the Phoenix at Tier 2, take the We are all her children Val Dellenov talent for a bump to loyal companion

    after tier 2 take holy champion of saluwe, the 2nd tier of master of the hounds to get the bump you desire, you have to see this system for the long haul not the instant gratification of I want it now.

    elemental companion is a binding spell and doesnt follow these rules, but the ulfian ranger can get an elemental companion this way, i noteiced that when searching for an answer here.

    and Eric is absolutely correct and I’ll repeat it for emphasis “it isn’t about what your character owns it is about what your character does.”

    February 21, 2014 at 2:57 am #257174
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    This is why we need a guide, but while I was once enthusiastic about putting one together and had it 90% done, now I hardly see a reason.

    for the next guy or gal

    sometimes it’s about teaching what you know…

    also you can dig deep into your guide and talk about how best to use them in combat and out of combat as well as talents the hero may take to work better with their animal companion

    February 21, 2014 at 3:00 am #257176
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    While I have no direct confirmation that I was named specifically when writing the new rules set, limited the power and presence of summoned or owned creatures was clearly to eliminate abuses of the 3.x system I took advantage of. Namely FLIGHT, Animal Companions, Summoning, excessive wealth and Magic Items.

    When I was writing the rules I kept both you and a local Miami player named Ramon in mind.

    Animals are still a good investment, and summoned a elemental can come in handy…

    never mind infernal and the like..

    they are useful but don’t take over the table

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