Archetypes, Backgrounds, Spell Casting & Balance (was Poll)

2. Damage bumps to spell based AoEs affect all targets. If you add a d6 of additional elemental damage, every target takes it. Forward stance and Wolf Pack Tactics apply to all attacks, but do a Mighty Swing + Sweeping Strike and only the first target takes the extra +5 damage.

Where do you see that only the first target takes the +5 damage? The book says the effects are combined and even specifically uses Sweeping+Mighty as an example. The errata only changes/clarifies things when combining Two-Weapon with multi-target (eg Spinning+Sweeping or similar). Unless I’m missing something, the +5 damage from Mighty+Sweeping applies to all targets.

I’ve been working on something I may submit to a few people for review, but it got me thinking about Paul’s third “Combat Contribution” and around “Impact”. I would also include versatility or flexibility in that category.

I think the Martial Archetype has the potential to be very effective in that area, if they make that a priority.

Here are the different status effects or conditions that Maneuvers (Tricks and Techniques) allow:
Tier 1
Grabbed – Mancatcher Staff
Push 2 – Variety of Weapons
Immobilized/Prone – Bola
Reduce Pace (Action) – Scimitar, Sickle
Immobilized – Pick
Prone/Pushed – Large Shield
Stunned – Club
Disarm – Variety
Trip – Variety
Action Penalty (-2) – Any
Force Movement – Any
Multi-Targets (2) – Any

Tier 2
Pinned/Prone – Mancatcher Staff
Forced Dismount – Pick, Halberd
Stunned/Push 5 – Small Shield
Multi-Targets (3) – Any
Avoidance Penalty (-2) – Any
Bleed Effect – Any

Tier 3
Reduce Pace (Scene) – Bow/Crossbow/Flintlock
Multi-Target (All in 30′) – Dagger
Blind – Any

Tier 4
Instant Death (Common/Minion) – Mancatcher Staff, Unarmed
Multi-Target (15) – Bow
Multi-Target (Melee) – Any
Reduce AR – Ranged Weapon

Tier 5
Ranged Disarm – Flintlock, Crossbow
Bypass AR – Bow/Crossbow, Flintlock

Just a sampling. Granted, I think there could be some additional ones at higher tiers that stack multiple effects.

John

John,

Keep in mind that the status effects are across a wide range of weapons and associated skills. In your list there are at least 5 weapon skills represented if not more. Even if a character could keep all of them up there are speed costs in switching weapons, bulk and weight costs for carrying them and talent implications such as with weapon mastery. Characters may certainly avail themselves of one or two weapons with status type effects, but more than that is rarely practical. Especially when you consider that a caster gets all of that plus the ability to target different defenses running off a single skill.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Paul
You bring up a valid point, but I may have contributed to the confusion. I only listed the ‘lowest Tier’ at which an ability was gained. The same abilities can be gained at higher Tiers with other weapons (For instance, Crushing Blow for Stunning is gained by different weapons at different Tiers), so I don’t think all weapon skills are needed (Though a more detailed cataloguing would be necessary to see for sure). In addition the “Weapon Group” Talents are a nice way to double-dip in some combinations.

However, where I think we have a fundamental difference of opinion is that I believe Martial Characters have the unique ability to broadly apply their ‘martial prowess’ across weapons and weapon groups, using both skills and Talents. Martials should really be keeping 2-3 weapon skills maxed as a rule in order to truly capitalize on what Experts/Casters can’t do. I believe that the Martial Characters who aren’t really broadening their weapon choices to accommodate different needs (materials, damage types, speeds, etc.) aren’t truly making the most of the Martial Archetype and may be better served by another Archetype. Practically any character can keep 1 weapon skill maximized (3 Ranks / Tier) with the proper choices, but only Martials can do this reliably for 2-3 skills. It’s this versatility that lets them shine in multiple situations where others would fall behind.

As an example, my Expert really maximizes his use of the Steel Whip. If I encounter a creature resistance to bludgeoning damage or to the particular material my weapon is made of, I have to find other ways to deal with it. A Martial character should be able to whip out his piercing weapon and be just as skilled with Talents and Ranks.

In much the same way that an Expert can’t devote *all* their skill focus to a single skill (e.g. Persuasion) and expect to be making good use of the Expert Archetype.

John

As an anectdotal, I’ve just tried to rebuild my Expert Saluwe priestess archer as a Divine.

Couldn’t do it. Everything except Arcanum (Cants) dropped and it was actually harder to find the talent slots for the archery support.

As an Expert, I have to use the “Learn any one Talent” advancement for the extra LMT (ta), but its still more efficient than trying to use the Divine advancements.

Current version
4 ranks in both Cants and Archery.

1. Concept
Agrippina Rutilia Bellator
___________________________________
___________________________________
___________________________________

2. Archetype: Expert
Skills:
Ride
Beast Lore (Canine)
Heal
Perception
Perform (Oratory)
Wilderness Lore

Talents: (Ignore requirements, choose now)
Armour Proficiency ( Light: Nation )
Weapon Training (Bows, Spear, Sickle )
Adaptable (Arcanum: Cants, Ranged: Archery)
Loyal Companion I (Alpha Wolf)

Special:
___________________________________

3. Attributes (Heroic – 40 point buy)
Mi _3____ Ch _6+1___
Pr _6____ In _4____
Qu _6____ Lo _4+1___
Vi _4____ Re _4__

4. Race: Human
Skills:
Arcanum: Cants
Ranged: Archery

Talents (chosen at Step 9):
Prestidigitation
Divine Spell Casting I

Special:
+1 Av

Racial Language: Low Coryani
Attribute Adjustment (Choose): Any

5. Nation/Region: Coryan/Balantica
Skills:
Tracking
Wilderness Lore

Native Language:
Low Coryani

6. Background: Initiate of the Gods (Saluwe)
Minimum Age: 20
Attribute Adjustment (Lowest): Ch, Lo
Skills:
Arcanum (Cants)
Knowledge (Religion)
Ranged (Archery)

Talents: (Ignore requirements, choose now)
Weapon Training/Mastery I (Sickle)

Special:
DSC is no longer Limited
Devout Talents are no longer Limited

Starting Gear:
Lorica Musculata
Sickle
Common Holy Symbol
Prayer Book
Traveller’s Kit

Starting Silver: 3d6(Ch) = 15sp

7. Train Skills (pLo + pRe +3 skill points)
Arcanum (Cants)
Melee (Unbalanced) 2 (3)
Mettle
Perception
Ranged (Archery)
Wilderness Lore#

8. Choose Flaws (Optional)
Oblivious

9. Train Talents
Quickdraw I
LMT1: Unbalancing Attack
LMT1: Precise Aim

10. Advancement Plan (optional):
1.1 Character Creation
1.2 +1 Qu, +1 Pr#
1.3 +1 Trained skills (pLo+3)#
1.4 Talents (2): LMT1: #Rapid Shot, #Stable Stance
1.5 Path: Ranger (Tracking, Wilderness Lore, Lay of the Land, Weapon Training (Bows))
1.6 +1 all skills
1.7 +1 Archetype Skills (pLo+3)
1.8 +1 Mi, +1 Ch
1.9 +2 All Defences
1.10 Talent: Spell Affinity (Benediction) or Learn 2 skills: Beast Lore (Birds of Prey), Beast Lore (Exotic Animals)

2.1 Talents x2: DSCII, LMT2: Careful Aim
2.2 Path: Anointed Priestess of Saluwe (Beast Lore, Wilderness Lore, Animal Affinity#, Lay of the Land II)
2.3 Skill Talents (2): Sabbatical (Arcanum, Melee, Ranged), #Loyal Companion II
2.4 +1 In, +1 Qu
2.5 +1 All Skills
2.6 +1 to (pLo+3) Trained skills
2.7 +1 Archetype Skills (x6)
2.8 +2 All Defences
2.9 +1 Vi, +1 Re
2.10 Talent: ?

The focus of a Beltinian Exorcist would benefit from using a Divine build, as you shouldn’t have that big call on LMT talents.

2. Damage bumps to spell based AoEs affect all targets. If you add a d6 of additional elemental damage, every target takes it. Forward stance and Wolf Pack Tactics apply to all attacks, but do a Mighty Swing + Sweeping Strike and only the first target takes the extra +5 damage.

Where do you see that only the first target takes the +5 damage? The book says the effects are combined and even specifically uses Sweeping+Mighty as an example. The errata only changes/clarifies things when combining Two-Weapon with multi-target (eg Spinning+Sweeping or similar). Unless I’m missing something, the +5 damage from Mighty+Sweeping applies to all targets.

You are correct…if you combine a Base Maneuver that imposes an effect or extra damage with a multi-attack Base Maneuver (Sweeping Strikes, Passing Strike, Flows like Sand, etc.) then every target of the attack suffers the effect/damage.

John

You are correct. Sorry about the confusion, I was thinking more of effects combined with Two-Weapon fighting.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Hello Paul,

I could not find your thread about a fully tricked out archer. Can you add a link or post here again.

We have an Archer in the group and we wanted to make sure we are going down the right path for success:

Race: Osaliken
Arch: Expert
Background: Huntsman
Tier I Path: Bowman

Already have LMT Rapid shot and Precise Aim

That’s not a mechanical problem, that’s a mechanical balance. A fighter under recovery can make an average attack. A caster under strain can delay it or cast through it repeatedly using their best spells over and over. I encourage you to back and look at my other thread. I showed how building a nigh fully tricked out archer with all the martial techniques you’d need (7) and talents (5) is easily possible with limited investment at character creation or with a Path or 1 talent advancement getting them there. Any archetype can make that investment. With an Expert though, that’s not just combat grade skill, but combat grade ranged. And the Expert still gets all of the spells, skills, skill talents and paths beyond that. The difference as I noted is that while a Martial archer is burning off recovery waiting for another great hit, the Expert is using the Martial’s best attacks AS their down time.