commune with the spirits

As I was playing a shaman at the time, I asked a lot of questions about this spell on the old forums. The official answers were as follows (though, it obviously needs to be reiterated/confirmed on the new forums):

1) Elder and Psionic only spells are not available

2) The spell is treated as belonging to the appropriate school (tradition) of Corpus, Illusion, etc., and spell-specific adaptations permitted under that auspice were also permitted. The rationale was reinforced by the mention that creatures immune to said tradition would be immune to the Commune-granted version as well.

3) Prerequisite spells are ignored. (I was the one that asked that question in particular, so I remember it very well)

I think that this is where our opinions diverge, Sir toodeep, because my read of the text tells me fairly clearly you do not get the tradition. The text of the spell Commune with Spirits says:

. . . this boon takes
the shape a single spell from the
Corpus, Illusions, or Control
Traditions.

It does not say that “You gain access to the Corpus, Illusions, and Control Traditions and the ability to cast one spell from one of these three traditions for 24 hours”, it simply says you gain access to a single spell from the tradition. Because there is a VERY long list of spells in those three traditions, it makes much more sense from a word count perspective to just say “You can choose a single spell from the list provided later in this document” rather than individually listing each out.

That said, while you get to choose a single spell from Corpus, Illusions, or Control, none of those Traditions are playable for Primals. In fact, that is one of the core concepts of their casting options. As such, you gain access to one of these spells through a SPELL, not through the base tradition. Your “Tradition” for the spell gained is “Commune with Spirits” because you have not received training or access to the actual tradition that they originally came from. The metanarrative reason for Tradition, Path, or any other special adaptation is that by learning that spell through that method, you are taught new ways of manipulating it. It is the same concept as a Secret or Exotic spell. Since you do not have this training, but simply gain the power by selling your soul to a quasi-divine being, you do not have access to this special training.

I could be wrong, and if so I’m sorry, but my reading of the text does not support the argument that you ‘gain the tradition along with the spell.’

Cody,

you hit the nail on the head

Dammit, Pedro, that doesn’t really give him the answer he was looking for So I’m guessing that’s a “no” for Tradition adaptations, but is the rest of what I remembered still accurate? (No Elder/Psionic and ignore prerequisite spells)

Correct its a NO for Tradition adaptations, and it should be a no for the rest (elder and psionic spells for example) but that’s something that needs to be clarified in the spell.

Here is how I’m going to be running this:

Commune with Spirits
When using Commune with spirits you can bargain for any tier of spell that you currently have access to , with Arcane spellcasting Primal Source.
When selecting spells you CANNOT choose spells that are specific to a different Source (eg, you may not take Mindlock since its Elder magic, or Mental Scream since its psionic) Likewise you can’t use any source specific adaptations.

Response to Pedro sent via PM