Requirements for Talents (and Martial Techniques)

I just remembered a critical piece of the rationale for Archetype ignoring all prereqs (except tier, race, and limited). Nobody can qualify for (almost) any Talents with skill or Talent prereqs when you choose Archetype Talents – you haven’t gotten any skills or Talents except those granted by Archetype. That means even a Martial with Might 6 does not qualify for Sweeping Strike – the only Martial Technique a Martial could qualify for (without ignoring prereqs) is Wall of Steel (every other Martial Technique requires at least 3 ranks in a skill). Similarly an Expert could not possibly qualify for Prestidigitation (because it requires 3 ranks in a Lore skill).

Either Archetype must ignore prereqs for Talents or the entire character generation process around Archetypes has to be rewritten.

Hello all,
Let me address a couple of things…
First, starting with the issue at hand…if You noticed, I said my original post was a quick answer. Through the years, we have had many, many discussions and rulings on a variety of topics, including this one. As best as memory serves, pre-errata, all Talent selection.was delayed until Step 9 of character creation, which specifically states you must meet the pre-reqs. (Which would give you the chance to meet thr pre-reds…like 3 ranks in a Lore skill for Prestidigitatiom) However, this was confusing to some based on wording/timing or whatnot and the errata was made. So, my quick ruling was based on that memory and I did not double check the errata.

So, to clarify…based upon the errata, Archetypes would get to ignore pre-reqs for a “choose any”. For Bacgrounds and Paths, my original post stands. Yes, I know what the Talent chapter in ARG says. But as we have written more material and Background/Path options, we made some generalized ones to allow players more freedom and individuality. This, unfortunately, has opened the door to abuse. My ruling closes that door. A specifically named Talent is fine (regardless of pre-reqs), “pick” ones are not.

I also realizes this creates a “why X, but not Y and Z” conundrum, which can be annoying. The best answer I can give to that is because right now it needs to be that way because otherwise, pre-reqs would only matter for a handful of Talents over the course of a Heroes career. Like any other game, several issues have risen to the surface with ARG in the 6 or so years it has been out. This is one of them that would need to be rectified in a second edition.

Second issue: someone brought up the issue that some Backgrounds/Paths state things like “choose any X Talent” vs. “choose any X Talent that you meet the requirements for”. Although it should be covered by the ruling, these should be treated as synonymous. Different contributors phrase things in different ways. Some write with brevity and simplicity in mind, others add in more verbiage for specificity. It was never the intention to create a back door to Talents. Please remember that unless rules specifically say you can, than you can’t. (Not “the rules don’t say I can’t so I can”.). In the future, if we intend for a general pick to ignore pre-reqs, we will need to specifically say so.

Trust me players will always find something to “grump” about. I had a great concept for a Coryani Battle Mage only to find out I have to have Arcanum: Sorcery, when I wanted to go the Arcanum: Meditation route…oh well…

Upon further reflection I have elected to go Inquisitor of the Mother Church with this character…in the end a far more “fun” choice…

You do realize that under the ruling, “Learn Martial Technique” is a specifically named talent and is still a valid exemption for Background/Path. It just happens to be a Talent you can take multiple times and gives a different benefit each time.

I believe Matt’s intent is plain. If you’ve got an alternate wording that you feel is clear and eliminates that confusion, I expect he’s open to hearing it.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I would argue that Learn Martial Technique isn’t a specifically named talent, any more than “choose any Combat talent” is. You’re still having to pick a talent within a restricted set. Learn Martial Technique: Lunge or Learn Martial Technique: Sweeping Strikes would be examples of a specifically named talent.

I would argue that Learn Martial Technique isn’t a specifically named talent, any more than “choose any Combat talent” is. You’re still having to pick a talent within a restricted set. Learn Martial Technique: Lunge or Learn Martial Technique: Sweeping Strikes would be examples of a specifically named talent.
I think Matt and others agree with you. At creation in the archetype phase you get to ignore reqs on Learn Martial technique (if you are a martial character). Everywhere I else you have to meet the reqs of the MT you wish to take.

::sigh:: As I understand Matt

…you ignore the requirements at the Archetype phase. So if you are martial you (can) get MT: Sweeping Strike. Or as an expert you could take Presti or Quick with your any 2 skill talents … and/or you have no problems with ASC as an Arcane archetype (or DSC if you are divine…)

But that changes for paths and backgrounds. If you get something from one like “any combat talent” then you still have to meet the requirements of what you pick.