starting languages?

Guaranteed 1000% I am never going to edit a character while judging just to check for languages known.

Well John, my response to you would be to reconcile what all of the separate rule parts mean in a step by step fashion.

“each Hero learns a number of Languages equal to their Passive Logic Value, one of which must be your national language”

and

“Also, choose 1 of the Native languages as appropriate.”

seem to fit together nicely as rules go the way I described it:
Racial languages + Passive logic, the first of which is a national language

Josh,
That would make perfect sense IF those two sentences were anywhere near one another or referenced in the same Character Step. However, they are not.

Step 5: Choose your hero’s Home Nation and Region (Page 122) is the reference for Step 5. Page 122 is the table for nations and regions and it states:

Your hero’s homeland provides him with some rudimentary skills and determines if the character is automatically literate.
- Choose a Region and Nation from Table 2-6: Regional Skills.
- Choose 2 Skills from your home nation and add 1 Skill Rank to each.
- Also, choose 1 of the Native languages as appropriate.

The “Also,” is in relation to what you get from your hero’s homeland and has nothing to do with the Linguistics Skill.

The other reference to “one of which must be your national Language” is in the Linguistics Skill and the only table it refers to is the Language Table and not back to Table 2-6 or page 122. In addition to this being in a different section, one uses the term Native Language and one uses national language. Granted, they could be intended to be the same thing, but they are still chosen in different parts of character generation.

That is the reason I consider them two separate steps and not related. Overall, the sentence about Passive Logic is really in a bad place and could be missed by a lot of folks new to the system if they don’t take Linguistics as a skill. By a ‘strict’ reading, one could argue you don’t get your passive Logic in languages UNLESS you are also trained in Linguistics as it’s all in the same paragraph and that sentence begins with “In addition,”.

I’m certainly not claiming I am right, but considering there are no races that don’t get their Native Language / national language, the entire 1 must be in your native tongue seems redundant and unnecessary. Being in a different area from Choose a Nation also lends to this. it really is an ambiguous area and would benefit from an official ruling on how those 3 sections interact.

John

John, I think you have misunderstood the question.
Dark kin Lists “Native Nation” And Solani Dwarves get “Udor, Low Coryani”

the question was what races dont get “native nation” listed in their languages and the answer is :

Races that don’t get “Native Nation” listed as a racial Language
Dwarves, Elorii, Gnomes that pick Dwarven Languages, Kio, Ssressen, Ashen Hide Ssressen, Ghost Scale Ssressen

Race that do get “Native Nation” listed as a Racial Language:
Dark kin, Gnomes that pick a human region, Human, Val, Undir

Edit added human, I blame gnomes and Pedro

I’m not arguing, just explaining the other point of view.

There are races that don’t say “Native Language” explicitly and if that was the question, I did misunderstand. You summarized it well, though Human is another one that does list Native Language). The other races list a specific language, which when referring to Nation/Region table is the only choice (dwarves, elorii as an example) under Native Language so they effectively get their Native Language during Race selection, but not explicitly with the words “Native Nation”.

John

doh your right, i just had the gnome bit, and forgot to type human again

Those gnomes are always causing trouble.

John