Buckler and Spellcasting

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  • March 12, 2014 at 2:45 am #258612
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Those 2 trivial actions can have a huge impact on effects.

    Eg.
    Action: Cast spell (Spd: 5), Stow Shield (Spd: +1, with Quickdraw III).
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Action: Ready shield (Spd: +1 with Quickdraw I), another action.

    For those 6 ticks, the cast is vulnerable to attack or does not have a weapon in hand.
    Compared to Quick Hands (ta), which does not have that period of down time.Then I don’t see why a talent that is +1 tick (no CTN increase) but you lose your shield bonus until your next action isn’t a viable talent? Or even +2 ticks if that’s your thing. It would give Hurrianic Aegis who don’t have Quickness 6 or anyone who doesn’t have Quickness 6 (and two extra talents) a chance to cast and shield.

    March 12, 2014 at 2:53 am #258614
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Then that is a fundamental change in the way the rules are currently written and the thematics of the same. As it stands you must have a hand free to cast. If you say that you can adapt the weapon into the casting, then we already have that talent. It is Arcane Strike. Any sword and board weapon casting style would have to have Arcane Strike as a prereq in order to remain constant with the intent of the current rules already in place.Now that’s a good reason to argue against Cast with Shield or Dual. But this rule is already defeated by Quick Hands and you seem okay with that? Why not options for the others?

    If you say that you can adapt the weapon into the casting, then we already have that talent. It is Arcane Strike. Any sword and board weapon casting style would have to have Arcane Strike as a prereq in order to remain constant with the intent of the current rules already in place.What about divine casters? Or not casting offensive spells?

    March 12, 2014 at 4:53 am #258630
    PCI_Admin
    Keymaster

    Lo, and Zac did throw wide the gates of Hades!
    And these was much suffering and confusion, teeth gnashed and breasts beaten and hair torn! \":lol:\"

    So, yeah. Uh. Runes? No?
    Something simpler maybe?

    March 12, 2014 at 5:04 am #258632
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I disagree with Eric. Given that Quick Hands exists and that it can be done for high Quickness characters using Quickdraw T3, I see no reason that there shouldn’t be options for sword+board (or TWF) at lower tier. The proposal is already far more impairing and restrictive than Quick Hands (CTN increase and lose shield bonus). Options are good.

    March 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm #258656
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I do not think any option for casting with each hand occupied (by an individual item) should be remotely cheaper or easier than the T3 Quick Draw option. That just makes no sense.

    Having full defense/offense availability in addition to casting should have a cost, and a large one at that, imo. This is a prime example of having one’s cake and eating it, too.

    I am less worried about two-handed weapons. While the weapon is designed to be swung with two hands, anyone capable of doing to effectively can also just hold it with one hand for a short time. A minor adjustment to speed/ctn as the wielder adjusts their handhold seems balanced.

    March 12, 2014 at 3:08 pm #258667
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I had originally asked this question in regards to bucklers. Given that in many systems bucklers are strapped to the forearm and allow use of a weapon, it seemed appropriate. In Arcanis bucklers only protect against 1 target so they aren’t as big or defensive as other shields, so it seemed that allowing hand motions while using it wouldn’t be a problem.

    I can understand not allowing it with a tower shield, and maybe the CTN is based upon the SM of the shield : lower SM result in lower CTN adjustments.

    John

    March 12, 2014 at 3:59 pm #258676
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Personally I agree with the sentiment that it’s a choice. If you want to use a shield in combat and cast non-Psionic spells, you’ll need to put the weapon away or drop it, cast and then rearm. The goal of the system isn’t to allow characters to do everything at once. Arcane casters can already use any type of armor, and there are ways to get avoidance bonuses in place of the shield. You can start mitigating the speed through quickdraw starting at tier 1 and then complete in tier 3.

    With a sweep of his hat,

    Paul

    March 12, 2014 at 6:44 pm #258722
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    To Devinkite:

    The thematic requirement that a hand must be free is not violated by Quick Hands. For the record I do not support anything other than Quick Hands and the Quick Draw options currently available. Anything more smacks of the arms race that caused me to leave DnD 3.x. What I was responding to was Johns assertion that you can cast through a weapon.

    For Divine Casters 1+1=2 ALWAYS. Divine spells are rote memory actions based on faith handed down from the first imperium. As such they should not be able to adapt a spell and cast it through a shield. Such an object specific adaptation could not have been handed down from the first imperium.

    March 13, 2014 at 12:34 am #258758
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I just realized something we are all missing. Shields are weapons! They have nifty tricks. They do damage. There is a shield that is a national weapon for all nations. Why not just use a shield for both melee offense and defense and cast with the primary hand? Problem solved without a change in the rules bending reality. I am sure Delbert will teach folks how to beat people with a shield if asked. Just ask in slow, simple to understand sentences. \":D\"

    March 13, 2014 at 3:03 am #258768
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Delbert uses the holmgang fighting style that requires sword and board… so keep looking for the sole shield basher \":P\"

    March 13, 2014 at 3:29 am #258769
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Having full defense/offense availability in addition to casting should have a cost, and a large one at that, imo. This is a prime example of having one’s cake and eating it, too.

    I am less worried about two-handed weapons. While the weapon is designed to be swung with two hands, anyone capable of doing to effectively can also just hold it with one hand for a short time. A minor adjustment to speed/ctn as the wielder adjusts their handhold seems balanced.

    Except that the proposal already addresses that. You don’t have full defense/offense. You lose the shield bonus until your next action (and likely have both a CTN and speed penalty).

    Quick Hands gives you everything for only +1 speed (no CTN mod).

    I can understand not allowing it with a tower shield, and maybe the CTN is based upon the SM of the shield : lower SM result in lower CTN adjustments.

    I like that idea. Make the CTN mod equal to SM (or possible SB if it is thought SM is slightly too high).

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