learn martial tech change

Between tiering LMT, tiering Learn Spell and tiering Bloodlines, my primary is going to have some long-term issues to deal with (not enough talents to go around from T3 onwards).

I’m hoping there will be a Path for folks who want to pursue Bloodlines to open up some options. I’ll agree, there’s not enough Talents to go around in general. The choices do help define the characters though.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I’m not sure of the intent, but a possible alternate solution:
instead of relying on having techniques at every tier, look at the total number of techniques known
EG, to learn a Tier IV trick you must know 4 other martial techniques (or 5 or 6 expressed at Tier +x).. it makes it easy for the martial characters to qualify and prevents the cherry picking that people are worried about and provides so much more flexibility.

I like this solution (of course, I suggested pretty much the same thing for Val Bloodlines). I would suggest it be possess number of spell/talent tier-1 across the board instead of possess a spell/talent of tier-1 (any more than tier-1 does not work for bloodline).

Going by count still adds more restrictions than currently but allows a lot more choices than the current proposed errata (ex getting bloodline t4 would require you to have 3 of the 5 earlier bloodline talents vs 1+ of 2 t1, 1+ of 2 t2, and the specific t3).

I’m not sure of the intent, but a possible alternate solution:
instead of relying on having techniques at every tier, look at the total number of techniques known
EG, to learn a Tier IV trick you must know 4 other martial techniques (or 5 or 6 expressed at Tier +x).. it makes it easy for the martial characters to qualify and prevents the cherry picking that people are worried about and provides so much more flexibility.

This seems a nice compromise for both Bloodlines and Martial Techniques. I think it should still be to learn a Tier X technique/bloodline, you must posses at least X-1 other techniques/bloodlines.

John

As a side note, I don’t understand what’s “wrong” with cherry picking techniques.

Game balance and at best it’s a start. I’ll be starting another thread on how to fix the Martial Archetype to bring it in line with the other 3 in terms of usefulness and/or flexibility, especially when you consider melee combatants. The Martial Archetype is significantly behind the other Archetypes when it comes to usefulness in the game and cherry picking techniques is one of the contributing factors.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I’d be interested to see why you think Martial Archetypes are behind anyone. With combats occupying 2-3 encounters in a typical adventure, combat characters *always* have a chance to shine in the game. Many Martial Archetypes have abilities that they can use outside of combat, particularly if they have expanded some into specific skills or picked up some minor casting.

John

John,

Any caster who wants to can easily shine in combat, often more brightly than the Martial characters. Abilities that arguably should help differentiate the Martial character are easy for all the other Archetypes to pick up. Skill options outside of combat are very limited and very situational. If they have to pick up minor spell casting abilities to be useful, that only reinforces the point.

More in the other thread.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Paul
I’m not going to say you’re right or wrong, as that’s not my place. However, if what you say is true, it really indicates that the Expert is at even more of a disadvantage. If skills, as you say, are limited and situational, that is the ‘strength’ of the Expert as defined by the rules and in many peoples’ minds. At least Martial Characters have more combat options than Experts.

John

At least Martial Characters have more combat options than Experts.

John

As they should.

Yes, but if Martial Characters are considered deficient, and out of combat skills aren’t useful, what does that leave the Expert with is my question?

John

Well Martial aren’t supposed to be ‘great’ at out of combat skills. Their speciality is combat skills and combat talents. They get an option for 4 combat talents with 2 advancements. They can get physical ones (stealth, athletics, acrobatics, and ride) and combat (including battle, mettle, and combat skills).

As to how many are playing, Given the results of the ‘informal’ poll, it appears Martial outnumber Experts by twice. Here is the Link.

John

I’m not sure of the intent, but a possible alternate solution:
instead of relying on having techniques at every tier, look at the total number of techniques known
EG, to learn a Tier IV trick you must know 4 other martial techniques (or 5 or 6 expressed at Tier +x).. it makes it easy for the martial characters to qualify and prevents the cherry picking that people are worried about and provides so much more flexibility.
Yep, back on track… Reposting this because it got lost in the wash:

I like this, I’m a fan, mostly. I would suggest combining the proposed requirements (yours and Pedro’s).

“In order to take a martial technique of Tier 2+ the character must possess either: at least one technique of 1 tier lower than the new technique OR a number of lower tiered techniques equal to the tier of the new technique.

Example: In order to take Learn Martial Technique to acquire a Tier 4 technique, the character must already know at least 1 Tier 3 technique OR a total of 4 Tier 1 & Tier 2 techniques.”

This offers the greatest flexibility and choices to the characters.