Using a 20′ long weapon in combat?

Tactical Edge from flanking is based upon proximity, not just threatened areas.

Here is the writeup:

Flanking:
Creatures with enemies on more than one side are Flanked; Flanked creatures grant a Tactical Edge to all enemies, not just those that are on either side of it.

John

So, in my book, if there’s a reasonable chance that someone is going to stab me in the back if I ignore him (regardless of if he stabs me with a knife, sword, spear or even just a sharpened stick) then that person is reasonably distracting and would be demanding enough of my attention that I would grant tactical edge to other people who might also want to stab me.

So yes, at my tables, if you are 20′ away from a pikeman, and in melee with someone else, then that someone else will get tac. edge.
EDIT: So will the pikeman. But if you are 15′ away, then no, I don’t think that the pikeman should grant tac. edge. But that’s a bit more gray to me.

Now, with respect to whirlwind attack… When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It’s obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20′ long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here’s how I intend to handle it at my tables… Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Here’s why… Obviously, there’s a (debatable) question of balance. Being able to attack 80 targets with one maneuver was never intended. (even if the majority of those attacks are at a penalty.) Second, some weapons have the Long Strike trick. While combining Whirlwind (when it becomes a base maneuver) with Long Strike is perfectly acceptable, in my book, that changes your reach to 10′, such that attacking targets adjacent to you is no longer acceptable. It seems to me that this concept should apply to all reach weapons. So, there’s a balance issue and a visual issue. There’s a striking end, and there’s a haft. And while the haft might hurt if struck by it, that’s not how the weapon was designed to be used. (And this is coming from a guy whose primary character uses a quarterstaff… a weapon with Long Strike.)

Scott

So, in my book, if there’s a reasonable chance that someone is going to stab me in the back if I ignore him (regardless of if he stabs me with a knife, sword, spear or even just a sharpened stick) then that person is reasonably distracting and would be demanding enough of my attention that I would grant tactical edge to other people who might also want to stab me.

So yes, at my tables, if you are 20′ away from a pikeman, and in melee with someone else, then that someone else will get tac. edge.
EDIT: So will the pikeman. But if you are 15′ away, then no, I don’t think that the pikeman should grant tac. edge. But that’s a bit more gray to me.

Scott

I then have to ask, if I’m a ranged fighter going against a target that I’m reasonably going to shoot with my bow, do I also provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it as well? What if I’m a caster getting ready to cast a spell on you if you divert your attention from me? Do I provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it? I see no difference between the pikeman who can attack anyone within his 20′ and a bow fighter able to shoot anyone within the same 20′ or so.

John

Now, with respect to whirlwind attack… When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It’s obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20′ long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here’s how I intend to handle it at my tables… Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Scott

Do you plan to use this for Sweeping Strikes as well? You can attack 2-3 targets within your optimal range but others are not valid?

John

Now, with respect to whirlwind attack… When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It’s obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20′ long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here’s how I intend to handle it at my tables… Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Scott

Do you plan to use this for Sweeping Strikes as well? You can attack 2-3 targets within your optimal range but others are not valid?

JohnHadn’t thought about it (because it’s not as abusive) but logically, yes, it would make sense. I couldn’t very well sweep at three targets where two of them are 20′ away and one of them is only 10′ away. Then again, by that same argument, any tree or post in the way would get in the way of the haft and prevent the sweeping/whirlwind attack, completely. However, there is a line that must be drawn somewhere. And everyone will prefer it in a different place. For me, I’m willing to overlook the obstacles for playability’s sake. But the general rule about “optimal” range seems fair to me.

Scott

I think the optimal range rule is fair for all multi attack talents.

Eric,

Another option for your character could be to take Weapon Training: Glaive and Adapt Weapon Trick: Long Strike. That would give you the option of Using the Short Spear with Long Strike Speed: +1, 0 Recovery at Tier 1. You’d need 3 ranks in Pole-arms obviously to qualify. It’s extra Talents, but gives you what you want. Just a thought.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul