Using a 20′ long weapon in combat?

Any Errata should adjust the Reach Weapon Trait and not specific weapons.

Suggested wording:

Weapon Traits: Reach (pg239). Add “You can not use a Martial Technique against an enemy with a Reach penalty to hit unless specifically allowed by the Technique.”

Quick and easy and allows the creation of new Martial Techniques for weapons with the trait.

And you just made it unusable with every technique in the game…

I think the intent was, you can’t use a Martial Technique with a weapon if you are attacking at a range that imposes a “reach penalty”. So as long as you’re attacking at ‘optimum range’ there’s no restriction.

John

Personally, I disagree with restricting maneuvers to optimum range for reach weapons. Does it make realistic sense? Maybe. Does it make for a fun game? No (long spear already seems to be under-represented/utilized – this would only make it worse). Does it make the game more balanced? No. Reach weapons already have a -2 (iirc) per 5′ under optimal range which seems like all the balance that is needed. Sweeping Strikes is still restricted to 2-3 targets. If there are higher tier maneuvers (I haven’t looked at them much) that break with reach weapons, maybe errata those specific maneuvers.

Yeah, what he’s on about.
I’m seeing smoke but not feeling any heat off this thing, y’know?

Personally, I disagree with restricting maneuvers to optimum range for reach weapons. Does it make realistic sense? Maybe. Does it make for a fun game? No (long spear already seems to be under-represented/utilized – this would only make it worse). Does it make the game more balanced? No. Reach weapons already have a -2 (iirc) per 5′ under optimal range which seems like all the balance that is needed. Sweeping Strikes is still restricted to 2-3 targets. If there are higher tier maneuvers (I haven’t looked at them much) that break with reach weapons, maybe errata those specific maneuvers.

Yeah, what he’s on about.
I’m seeing smoke but not feeling any heat off this thing, y’know?

There is Whirlwind Attack: Attack all creatures within range. That’s where it truly breaks.

Flowing Sand can be another one where it breaks.

John

I will be taking a look at not only reach weapons BUT muti-target maneuvers.

I have been playing around with limiting what maneuvers can be combined with muti-target maneuvers.

There is Whirlwind Attack: Attack all creatures within range. That’s where it truly breaks.

Flowing Sand can be another one where it breaks.

John
While I’m completely fine with leaving it alone and saying, “expect table variation.” I have to admit that Flowing Sand has me a bit worried. Sure, with Whirlwind attack, you have the potential to make 80 attacks, with 32 of them at your optimal range and the rest at a -2 through -6 penalty. Maybe the -2 through -6 penalty is enough to discourage that attack. But Flowing Sand is another beast. Maybe by Tier 5, it won’t matter. But if you have a 50′ pace, this is a potential of 170 attacks that you could make. And worst-case scenario, up to 132 of them will be without the -2 through -6 range penalty. Now that’s obscene.

Now, combine Whirlwind attack or Flowing Sand with another maneuver that pushes the clock or stuns an opponent and look out.

Is it dangerous enough to warrant discussion? Probably. Is this a case of lots of smoke, but no fire? Possibly. For now, like I said, I”ll just use the optimal range solution at my tables. But I wonder how many pike wielders we’re going to see at tier 5.

Scott

Sorry to pop your flowing sand bubble

You may only perform a number of attacks less or equal to your Passive Quickness Value, and no more than one attack per foe.

Personally, I disagree with restricting maneuvers to optimum range for reach weapons. Does it make realistic sense? Maybe. Does it make for a fun game? No (long spear already seems to be under-represented/utilized – this would only make it worse). Does it make the game more balanced? No. Reach weapons already have a -2 (iirc) per 5′ under optimal range which seems like all the balance that is needed. Sweeping Strikes is still restricted to 2-3 targets. If there are higher tier maneuvers (I haven’t looked at them much) that break with reach weapons, maybe errata those specific maneuvers.

Yeah, what he’s on about.
I’m seeing smoke but not feeling any heat off this thing, y’know?

There is Whirlwind Attack: Attack all creatures within range. That’s where it truly breaks.

Flowing Sand can be another one where it breaks.

John

I think the key with Whirlwind Attack is “all creatures”. The odds of there not being any allies within 20′ are very low. I could see this being powerful but I don’t think it’s really broken (then again, I’ve never seen it in play so I could be wrong). I can see how Flowing Sand would potentially be an issue but it’s Tier 5 (where I would expect things to be powerful – I haven’t looked at Tier 5 enough to know if this would be out-of-line powerful).

I’m not sure where you are all getting ‘creatures’ as whirlwind clearly states opponents.

john

From your post at the bottom of the previous page. I didn’t actually look up Whirlwind Attack. Well, that would be a simple fix for Whirlwind Attack – make it creatures (not just opponents). You’d have to be a little careful with most weapons but it’d be nearly impossible not to hit allies with a long spear.