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- May 19, 2015 at 3:55 am #267959AnonymousInactive
Does the ability to use Arcanum(Sorcery) untrained via the Bloodline Talent Sarish Is Known to His Chosen (ARPG p.222) count for the prerequisite of having Arcanum (Sorcery) as a trained skill?
It is technically not trained, but since val’Mehans with that Bloodline Talent can cast spells instinctively, I can easily see it being a sufficient substitute. This question matters mostly for learning spellcasting, which val’Mehans can already somewhat do via their bloodline, but most spellcasting talents (e.g., Arcane Spell Casting on ARPG pp.185-86) have prerequisites.
Given the Valinoric source of the val’Mehan Bloodline Talent, it’s possible that the answer is different for Eldritch vs. Sorcerer-Priest magic.
My read is no, it does not count for any prereqs. It simply allows you to cast certain spells without having the Arcanum spell.
May 19, 2015 at 3:56 am #267960AnonymousInactiveIn the Official FAQ Version 4.3, p.5, second question on the right column, the answer mentions gaining access to the Arcane Spell Casting or Divine Spell Casting talent via a Background, Path, or Archetype “without needing to meet the requirements.” Does this answer mean that these Paths (e.g., Initiate Itinerant, Templar Itinerant), Backgrounds (e.g., Initiate of the Gods, Templar), etc. bypass the Spell Casting talents’ listed prerequisites of Prestidigitation and skill ranks?
I had originally interpreted these Backgrounds and Paths as simply removing the [Limited] constraint for the spell casting talents yet still leaving intact the other prerequisites. Does granting access to the talent remove the prerequisites as the FAQ answer implies?
ASC and DSC are Limited Talents, which means that normal people cannot take them willy nilly. The paths and Background that you listed make DSC no longer limited to you. However, it does not grant you the talent, which means you still need to acquire the talent as per normal. The same is true with other Limited talents such as Saluwe’s Embrace or Loyal Companion. While a val’Mehan can gain a Loyal companion infernal, it doesn’t mean they can ignore the prereqs needed to ‘upgrade’ that infernal with the Loyal Companion talent.
May 19, 2015 at 3:58 am #267961AnonymousInactiveThree questions about ranged attacks and ranges:
1. ARPG gives rules for Ranged Weapons, but thrown Melee Weapons seem less clear. In ARPG p. 233, Table 2-24 lists separate “Range Increments” and “Max. Range” for each ranged weapon, and p. 238 gives the rules for range. With a Melee Weapon with the Thrown quality (ARPG, p.240), is the listed range the increment or the maximum? If it is the increment, then what is the maximum range for those weapons?
2. For a javelin, Table 2-24 (p. 233) lists the range increment listed as 20′ and max range 60′, whereas the weapon description on p. 243 lists the Thrown quality with 30′ range. Which is correct?
3. Some Weapon Tricks (e.g., Darken the Sky and Twin Throw) list a range that is greater than the base range increment of the weapon. I presume that’s all weapon trick ranges are the maximum possible range at which the trick can be applied, right? Does the penalty for going beyond one range increment still apply when using these tricks?
If it only lists a single range, that is it’s maximum range and there are no incriments. Basically, you can throw a dagger 30′ without a die penalty, but you can’t throw it any further than that.
May 19, 2015 at 4:09 am #267962AnonymousInactiveIn the Official FAQ Version 4.3, p.5, second question on the right column, the answer mentions gaining access to the Arcane Spell Casting or Divine Spell Casting talent via a Background, Path, or Archetype “without needing to meet the requirements.” Does this answer mean that these Paths (e.g., Initiate Itinerant, Templar Itinerant), Backgrounds (e.g., Initiate of the Gods, Templar), etc. bypass the Spell Casting talents’ listed prerequisites of Prestidigitation and skill ranks?
I had originally interpreted these Backgrounds and Paths as simply removing the [Limited] constraint for the spell casting talents yet still leaving intact the other prerequisites. Does granting access to the talent remove the prerequisites as the FAQ answer implies?
That is referring to Backgrounds, Paths, and Archetypes that explicitly grant Arcane/Divine Spell Casting as part of the “thing” (not ones like those you mention that simply grant access). Your original interpretation was correct – those simply remove the [Limited].
May 19, 2015 at 4:12 am #267963AnonymousInactiveWhen placed upon a wand, do the effects of a Sarish [Blessed] rune (from Forged in Magic, Vol. II, p.12) and a Sorcery (Eldritch) rune (from Forged in Magic, Vol. I, p.10) stack?
If not, the effects of the Sorcery (Eldritch) seem to entirely trump the Sarish [Blessed] rune to make the later obsolete.
No. They are both static bonuses from the magic item category so don’t stack (see stacking rules in FAQ v4.3 pg 12).
May 19, 2015 at 4:46 am #267964AnonymousInactiveIn the Official FAQ Version 4.3, p.5, second question on the right column, the answer mentions gaining access to the Arcane Spell Casting or Divine Spell Casting talent via a Background, Path, or Archetype “without needing to meet the requirements.” Does this answer mean that these Paths (e.g., Initiate Itinerant, Templar Itinerant), Backgrounds (e.g., Initiate of the Gods, Templar), etc. bypass the Spell Casting talents’ listed prerequisites of Prestidigitation and skill ranks?
ASC and DSC are Limited Talents, which means that normal people cannot take them willy nilly. The paths and Background that you listed make DSC no longer limited to you. However, it does not grant you the talent, which means you still need to acquire the talent as per normal. The same is true with other Limited talents such as Saluwe’s Embrace or Loyal Companion. While a val’Mehan can gain a Loyal companion infernal, it doesn’t mean they can ignore the prereqs needed to ‘upgrade’ that infernal with the Loyal Companion talent.
Steve Wilcoxon’s posted answer agrees with Cody’s.If you two are correct, I am concerned that some players may interpret the answer to the aforementioned question in the FAQ as indicating that all such Backgrounds, Paths, and Archetypes bypass the prerequisites. I see only Archetypes that explicitly bypass the prerequisites to grant directly the ASC or DSC talents. Perhaps the original answer meant that hypothetically such Backgrounds or Paths could exist. Does anyone else see any such Backgrounds or Paths?
The wording of the answer in the FAQ says, “[…] you can gain access […]”, which is the same wording as the Templar Itenerant Path: “[…] you instead gain access to […]”. I strongly suggest that the wording of the FAQ answer be changed to be more explicit that the prerequisites can be overridden only if the Background, Archetype, or Path directly grants the Talent.
The cost of adding spellcasting by means other than Archetype is high by requiring a Background or Path plus the ASC/DSC prerequisites, including having to take the Prestidigitation Talent, which has its own prerequisite. If a few players misunderstand that, their characters will be inappropriately (and illegitimately) more powerful than those of players who follow the rules.
May 19, 2015 at 4:52 am #267965AnonymousInactiveARPG gives rules for Ranged Weapons, but thrown Melee Weapons seem less clear. In ARPG p. 233, Table 2-24 lists separate “Range Increments” and “Max. Range” for each ranged weapon, and p. 238 gives the rules for range. With a Melee Weapon with the Thrown quality (ARPG, p.240), is the listed range the increment or the maximum? If it is the increment, then what is the maximum range for those weapons?
If it only lists a single range, that is it’s maximum range and there are no increments. Basically, you can throw a dagger 30′ without a die penalty, but you can’t throw it any further than that.
The Thrown quality for a Dagger (ARPG, p.241) lists its range as 10′, not 30′. Was that a typo in your post, Cody, or am I missing something?In comparison with the dagger’s listed range of 10′, its Weapon Trick Twin Throw has a range of 30′, and Steel Rain has a range of 20′. If Cody’s answer is correct about the weapon’s max range being the single range listed for the weapon (10′), that makes these tricks much more valuable.
May 19, 2015 at 6:26 am #267967AnonymousInactiveElder Sorcerer’s Apprentice (ba) is a relevant example of a Background giving some choices (there are only 3 in total where you get to choose a talent).
As for Paths, there are over a dozen where ignoring pre-reqs occurs (depending upon stats and skill ranks). More if you pay no attention to building the character up.
Building a PC today, I’ve picked up LMT: Sweeping Strikes (ta) without meeting the Might 6 and 3 skill rank requirements.
Please make sure to read the FAQ/Errata document, as heavy discussion of many questions was used to build the current version (4.3)
The Expert (a) or Martial (a) with Divine Spell Casting I (ta) is a ‘standard’ build at creation (see Player Commons forum). It can also be done with Arcane Spell Casting I (Primal) for characters from the Hinterlands.
May 20, 2015 at 6:04 am #267980AnonymousInactiveThe Background Awakened Scion (ARPG, pp.124-25) is clearly intended for vals with psionic abilities. However, that Background has no prerequisite of Arcane Spell Casting (Psionics) nor does it grant access to take Arcane Spell Casting (Psionics) by making it no longer a limited talent. Thus, a val who does not and will not ever learn psionics may take the Awakened Scion Background.
Is this intentional?
May 20, 2015 at 1:38 pm #267987AnonymousInactiveThe Background Awakened Scion (ARPG, pp.124-25) is clearly intended for vals with psionic abilities. However, that Background has no prerequisite of Arcane Spell Casting (Psionics) nor does it grant access to take Arcane Spell Casting (Psionics) by making it no longer a limited talent. Thus, a val who does not and will not ever learn psionics may take the Awakened Scion Background.
Is this intentional?
The Background is there to represent strong potential in a Val, given by the Potent Blood which increases their Blood Rank. Therefore, any Val may take it whether they have or plan to have actual psionics. Working as intended.
May 21, 2015 at 6:52 am #268000AnonymousInactiveCan the Talent Prestidigitation be taken once and used to quality for (i.e., count as the prerequisite for) multiple Spell Casting Talents, or must it be taken once for each separate Spell Casting Talent?
I think this matters only for learning Arcane Spell Casting (Psionics) as well as another form of Arcane Spell Casting or Divine Spell Casting.
On one hand, the description of Prestidigitation says (ARPG, p.203), “choose a source of magic.” On the other hand, I don’t see anything in the rules or FAQ/Errata about Prestidigitation, ASC, or DSC that indicates needing to take it separately for each source of the Arcanum.
May 21, 2015 at 9:01 am #268001frootsnaxParticipantMy understanding is that you only need Presti once.
May 21, 2015 at 12:40 pm #268002AnonymousInactiveOn one hand, the description of Prestidigitation says (ARPG, p.203), “choose a source of magic.” On the other hand, I don’t see anything in the rules or FAQ/Errata about Prestidigitation, ASC, or DSC that indicates needing to take it separately for each source of the Arcanum.
There is nothing written into the Prestidigitation (ta) which states it can be taken more than once. My understanding is that you take it once.
May 21, 2015 at 2:01 pm #268003AnonymousInactiveAs Acurrier stated. Unless the talent explicitly allows you to take it more than once (including “Tiered” header), you can’t take it or receive it again.
Example: One build I worked on wound up with Campaigner three times; which did nothing as it wasn’t tiered and couldn’t be taken more than once.
May 28, 2015 at 6:36 am #268068AnonymousInactiveCan Sorcerer-Priests of Sarish take (and make use of) the Talents Blessed Devotions (p.73) and Personal Remnant (p.84) from the Codex of Heroes, substituting ASC for DSC and Arcanum (Sorcery) for Arcanum (Cants)?
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